Battletoads is mostly about pattern matching. If you try to react to the speeder levels you literally cannot win because of the patterns and speed.
The bomb defusal levels in TMNT actually have fundamentally broken mechanics (there are plenty of youtubes out there). They are “fair” once you understand those, but it mostly results in a lot of deaths about 30 minutes into a run.
Two very different kinds of “Nintendo Hard” bullshit. Which is probably why I gravitated towards PC games at that age.
Exactly. Battletoads isn’t unfair, its just extremely hard (not different from Dark Souls). It’s different kind of hard, compared to Turtles, which had bad controls in example.
There are definitely control issues with like the sticky walls level. Some of the jumping has like completely bullshit edge detection and the rocket riding is way harder than the turbo tunnel, but you never hear anyone complain about it because no one ever makes it there.
Glad you like it. He always does this in-dept technical explanation, which sometimes is too technical for me. I noticed it wasn’t even the video I wanted to link and updated the reply with the additional link about the water level specifically.
I very much disagree on the Dark Souls comparison. It is a large part of why there has increasingly been the distinction between “Nintendo Hard” and “Hard but Fair” with (From) Souls games very much being the latter.
In a From-Souls, every boss short of the later DLCs (and puzzle bosses) have multiple viable paths. You can carry a tower shield or use ranged attacks or whatever.
Whereas, in the god awful speeder sequence especially, there really is one real path and it is to memroize the pattern and enter in the specific sequence.
The closest From-Souls got was Malenia and needing to know how to counter her Water Fowl attack. There was still the way to stagger her to death, but that was very build specific and a LOT of that game has the Dark Souls 2 problem of enemies with way too much poise. Combine that with dodging her dive bomb in phase 2 and she was VERY “sequence-y”. Which is why she got nerfed pretty heavily over the first few patches.
This level is 1,000% trivial compared to the work it takes to get deep into battle toads. I never considered this that hard as a kid compared to what comes later.
Lion King was ten times worse than Battletoads. The developers were told by Disney to make it impossible to beat during the rental period. That game was the first time I rage quit.
I’m not 100% certain as I only ever had it on SNES, but I’ve heard that the way the frame timings worked on SNES made the jumping in levels like Just Can’t Wait To Be King much harder. YMMV
I distinctly remember my cousin and I beating Battletoads. The worst part was the boss where you had to throw the adds at the screen to hurt him. Otherwise I have very rosy recalls of the game.
What?
I remember this game, and this wasn’t anything compared to the time I rented Battletoads for a weekend.
That game taught kids failure
Battletoads is mostly about pattern matching. If you try to react to the speeder levels you literally cannot win because of the patterns and speed.
The bomb defusal levels in TMNT actually have fundamentally broken mechanics (there are plenty of youtubes out there). They are “fair” once you understand those, but it mostly results in a lot of deaths about 30 minutes into a run.
Two very different kinds of “Nintendo Hard” bullshit. Which is probably why I gravitated towards PC games at that age.
Exactly. Battletoads isn’t unfair, its just extremely hard (not different from Dark Souls). It’s different kind of hard, compared to Turtles, which had bad controls in example.
There are definitely control issues with like the sticky walls level. Some of the jumping has like completely bullshit edge detection and the rocket riding is way harder than the turbo tunnel, but you never hear anyone complain about it because no one ever makes it there.
Here is a very good technical video about this topic: The Bad Jump Design and 30 FPS Gravity of TMNT (NES) - Behind the Code
Edit: I linked the wrong video. Here is the one I wanted to link, from the same guy:
The Broken Water Level of Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (NES) - Behind the Code
This was a great watch. Thanks for posting it!
Glad you like it. He always does this in-dept technical explanation, which sometimes is too technical for me. I noticed it wasn’t even the video I wanted to link and updated the reply with the additional link about the water level specifically.
Wow! What a cool video! And what a cool channel! I’ve watched a few now, thanks for pointing it out!
I very much disagree on the Dark Souls comparison. It is a large part of why there has increasingly been the distinction between “Nintendo Hard” and “Hard but Fair” with (From) Souls games very much being the latter.
In a From-Souls, every boss short of the later DLCs (and puzzle bosses) have multiple viable paths. You can carry a tower shield or use ranged attacks or whatever.
Whereas, in the god awful speeder sequence especially, there really is one real path and it is to memroize the pattern and enter in the specific sequence.
The closest From-Souls got was Malenia and needing to know how to counter her Water Fowl attack. There was still the way to stagger her to death, but that was very build specific and a LOT of that game has the Dark Souls 2 problem of enemies with way too much poise. Combine that with dodging her dive bomb in phase 2 and she was VERY “sequence-y”. Which is why she got nerfed pretty heavily over the first few patches.
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This level is 1,000% trivial compared to the work it takes to get deep into battle toads. I never considered this that hard as a kid compared to what comes later.
Lion King was ten times worse than Battletoads. The developers were told by Disney to make it impossible to beat during the rental period. That game was the first time I rage quit.
Were you playing it on Super Nintendo or Sega Genesis?
SNES. Was there a difference between the two in regards to gameplay?
I’m not 100% certain as I only ever had it on SNES, but I’ve heard that the way the frame timings worked on SNES made the jumping in levels like Just Can’t Wait To Be King much harder. YMMV
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Oh god that Lion King game. That wildebeest sequence was the first time I experienced tunnel vison. What the godamned fuck Disney?
My favorite was ghosts and goblins, beating it just to find out you have to beat it twice to actually win. That was rough one.
I distinctly remember my cousin and I beating Battletoads. The worst part was the boss where you had to throw the adds at the screen to hurt him. Otherwise I have very rosy recalls of the game.