- cross-posted to:
- science@mander.xyz
- cross-posted to:
- science@mander.xyz
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Well when one side wants to literally murder the other, Yeah.
No shit sherlock
Yeah no shit. If my partner thinks social welfare is bad and i am a socialist, ofc we wont get along
My wife has a friend who is a quirky anime loving girl with no desire for kids, not religious, and makes good money in healthcare.
Her friend is married to a hardcore Trump cultist that really wants kids, is very religious, and despite not having a good paying job, wants his wife to stay home and tend to the future kids.
My wife and I just honestly don’t understand how they are married.
Lol that divorce is coming, it’s just a matter of “when” not “if.”
Don’t worry, it’s only a matter of time and they will join you in not understanding.
Or they become a bangmaid. One of the two.
I get that people on lemmy are usually very political, and a big chunk of their lives orbit around politics.
But for most people that’s not the case.
I think that’s why I see so many comments of people shocked that someone would date other person who would vote for a different political party.
If politics is not a priority on your life it won’t really have much an impact on their relationship.
Talking from experience, I’ve dated people that have voted both the right and the extreme right. And it really didn’t burdened our relationship. You must understand that our conversations usually never pivot about politics, and when we talk about politics we don’t get passionate about it it’s just more like “you think that? Cool I think this other thing. So… what are eating today?”
I suppose in long term when you are all your life with a person overtime there can be frictions, specially if one or both become more passionate about politics.
If politics is not a priority on your life it won’t really have much an impact on their relationship.
This can ostensibly be true for stuff like what economic spending to prioritize, but once the country is deciding between fascist and non-fascist you can’t really not have politics impact people’s lives on a daily basis. If you live in a country where you don’t have to decide whether the political party criminalizes marginalized groups that’s all well and good, but it’s not the reality for everyone.
I wrote another comment about this friend that votes for a political party that would make Trump look like a liberal. Still not an issue, because we are both very peaceful people and we are not very pushy, so really even if there are differences we don’t try to hurt each other over those differences and we don’t take it as an insult or something of extreme gravity. Because once again, not everyone is extremely political. Even if you think they should be because the current situation mandates doe more political activism or whatever, it doesn’t mean that people are…
And second big reason is the reasons she has to vote for that party. She does it mostly in spite of the socialist party to bring them down because she thinks they are corrupt thieves (and as I said in the other comment sadly it has recently been proven to be right).
Also it’s important to understand that your vision of an opposite political party is not the same vision that the voters of that party have of it. In this example, and I’m sure it applies to trump as well, I think vox is a fascist political party. But she does not, she doesn’t think they are fascists and of course she doesn’t think of herself as a fascist (neither do I). She doesn’t vote it to stablish fascism. I remember saying to her that if they get elected they will cut right for women, she just doesn’t believe that’s going to happen, and that’s it, different believes on what’s going to happen if that party gets elected.
And I’m skeptical on my own knowledge of the future as well, before the current government was elected I said that the government wouldn’t do some things or some other things won’t happen, and those bad things ended up happening and I was wrong about those.
I think a big part of being open minded is knowing that yourself could be wrong, and being able to understand the reasons other people have to believe they are right. Not trying to make up those reasons for my own convenience. It would be easy, and politically convenient, to say that everyone who votes for vox (or trump in that case) is a fascist, but that statement would be closed minded and, probably, radicalized. People are complex, some would vote alt-right because they are fascists, but other would not. When engaging into any kind of relationship with anyone it’s good to listen to the reasons they have for the things they believe in. If a person would be a fascist I wouldn’t be friends of her, but that’s not the same, imho, as voting for a party that I think is fascist.
People are complex, some would vote alt-right because they are fascists, but other would not.
Yeah, I get that not everyone has time, energy, or even intelligence to look into all the political positions of a party, but some cases are so blatant that it feels like the most extreme type of willful ignorance to discount everything. I don’t know about your vox party, but like ok, the GOP has always been the party of hypocritical pieces of garbage, but maybe you never quite thought about how (for example) your single issue voting about fetus rights stopped immediately after birth, because fuck poor kids amirite? At least they’ve got the excuse that Faxist News paints every single person on welfare as lazy pieces of shit, and you don’t look further into that because why would the news lie to you about how lazy all those welfare queens are?
Maybe the first term I could see how idiots could be hoodwinked, but anyone who voted for Dump 2 is either stupid as fuck (severe cases of cognitive dissonance can fall into this category as well), or a rich amoral piece of shit, and I don’t think I’ll ever be convinced otherwise. Christians ignore all his rape convictions (because dozens of women are all lying jezebel whores, right?), or the fact that he’s never been seen at a church except for funerals or PR stunts (not that I think that going to church is moral, but they do). Poor people ignore the fact that he cheated countless blue collar contractors, was a slumlord, and hawked shit and sham products, all while shitting in gold toilets. Legal immigrants ignore his long and storied history of racism, and either don’t know or don’t care that he’s never shown an ounce of support for anyone non-white.
So basically it comes down to his voters being evil or not interested in facts, and they may not be outright fascist themselves, but I don’t really want either of those kinds of people in my life.
On the stupid front, for people not into politics they don’t get the same amount of facts as you to judge things, because they don’t care. So really there may not be that they are very stupid or willingly ignorant, os just, once again that politics does not play that big of a role in their lives.
And there is also a punishment vote. There is people who vote one party to punish other.
We tend to be more kind of the wrongs of our political option. But for some people they are unforgivable.
I suppose that some people would acknowledge that trump is bad, really bad, but for some reason they may think that Biden or the Democratic party is even worse.
Here that happens a lot and it’s going to happen in the next election. It’s not as much as people supporting one party, more like being really against the other party.
Once again, not American, and the places I frequent online are all left leaning. But I would really love to have calm conversations with some trump voters to really know and understand their reasoning. There’s a big chance that not all of them are either blatantly stupid or blatantly evil.
I also like to do the exercise of putting myself in as much perspectives as possible. For instance for truly fascist I’m a dangerous communist that want to do a lot of nasty things. That’s not true, so I always try to think if the things I think about other people may also not be true.
And how would most people on here characterise your political position?
You tell me. I can tell how I characterize myself.
I used to vote between the far left party and the moderate left party. And for the next election my plan is not vote because they disappointed me big time.
Giving more examples I have this friend, she votes for the alt-right party here (vox). But I get along with here very well. One instance of discrepancy is that while she is not homophobic (she knows I’m bi and she never said to me anything bad because of it) she is on the opinion that “gay people” is more promiscuous. Like she has some of these prejudices but she is not ill meaned, she is also Christian. But I don’t think she is a bad person, and it’s not like she is talking all the time about that or about politics in general. Most of the time when she talked about politics she just said that she was going to vote the alt-right because our current president is a thief. Which giving the current events in my country she might be right on that (big corruption scandal just blew up). But what I mean, is that she has some different opinions and when casting the ballot she votes for this radical party. But our relationship hasn’t been hindered because of that, and she is not even a bad person, she just don’t like the socialist party. And overall we don’t really talk that much about politics, it’s not a central theme for either of us, but even when we talk about it we have never argue, just talk differences calmly and with respect, we never insulted each other because politics.
it’s not a central theme for either of us, but even when we talk about it we have never argue, just talk differences calmly and with respect, we never insulted each other because politics.
This is a privilege you have that others do not.
If, for whatever reason, you were under the threat of violence every day, do you think you could be calm and rational? If that threatened violence against you hanging over your head was perpetuated by members of a political party, would you be calm and rational about that party? If this was because of something you couldn’t change about yourself, like being queer or black or a woman, would you be calm and rational? Do you think everyone could? Do you think a child could?
I know I couldn’t. I see these people breakdown over and over again. For something they did not choose. Sometimes for not being calm or rational.
It is silly to expect people to act calm and rational in the face of overwhelming prejudice, in the face of threats to your self, family, and friends, in the face of adversity–or worse, ennui–to your situation.
Let me steal an argument from a video I saw. Pretend you are having a party, and someone comes up to you and says that your friend Amanda should be kicked out of the party, that she doesn’t deserve to be here, that she is drinking too much of your beer, and that if she goes, everyone can have more beer. You like Amanda because she is your friend and you know she is kind and funny. Let’s say you calmly and rationally debate this guy, but he adamantly repeats these things, over and over again. Do you think Amanda feels good at this party? Should you keep debating this loser? Or would you kick him out of the party, by force if necessary, because Amanda did nothing wrong? Now imagine this person says this about ALL Amandas. Do you think this changes the situation? What if someone else told you that this guy just really hates Amandas but he’s cool otherwise, even though he really harps on how Amandas are ruining this party. Do you think Amanda likes that second guy? Should Amanda be calm and rational to either of those two people?
Don’t play the privilege card on my.
I’m LGBT and not only the “already accepted” letters, some of the not as widely accepted too. I can still be calm even knowing that the party I’m talking about will put me in danger. This other person doesn’t want to put me in danger and she doesn’t think voting for that party would put me in danger. We disagree in that and I respect her thoughts. I don’t feel like cutting social connection over making assumptions that are not necessarily true.
As I said. I’m a very calm person, and in later years politics have been pivoting away from my thoughts, and I don’t get as heated about them as I used to.
And, as I also said, I can be mistaken too. I do think this party will put me in danger. Imagine I cut ties with this person and that they get power (they will in two years top anyway giving current situation). And they truly do nothing that put me in danger. With which face could I look myself in the mirror after that? I prefer to be careful. I think they are dangerous, I will not vote for them. But I won’t start bashing people that vote them for reasons that so not directly imply hurting me.
For instance this person doesn’t even vote them for anything LGBT related. She vote for them mostly out of spite for the current socialist party (which I can see more clear that in some aspect she was right, they were stealing from us).
So giving this situation I really don’t think I could hate this person. And I think many would be in similar positions.
Don’t play the privilege card on my.
I absolutely will. Because you are ignoring yours. Being a part of a disadvantaged group doesn’t mean you don’t have privilege elsewhere. In fact, sometimes, that is the reason why you might ignore your privilege.
You are able to be calm with your friend because you do not see there is a danger. People like your friend haven’t hurt you. But would everyone else do the same? Your friend supports people that will hurt people like you, but do they think they can stop those people from hurting you?
I would rather lose a friend who didn’t want me hurt but supported people who would hurt me because that is not a logical view, no matter how calmly it is spoken.
Once again, do not play the privilege card. Not on me, not on anyone. It’s not a convincing argument, and it has not a real base. And it’s somehow discriminatory towards particular groups that you do not consider “unprivileged enough”.
As I say, I do think there is dangers with the party I consider fascist reach power. But my thoughts are irrelevant, I do mot judge people for my thoughts, I judge people for their thoughts. She doesn’t think that, that’s all that matter. And once again, it is very important that I do not think I have the absolute indiscutible truth in my power. I think that party is fascist and will hurt me. But I could be wrong. I like to act with measure. What happens if she ends up being right and in 2 years that party goes into power and do not do anything to hurt me? And I have to live my life knowing I cut a good relationship because something I was wrong about. Maybe some people can live with that, maybe some people can convince themselves that they are never wrong. I cannot. I won’t vote to that party because what I think they may do, that’s proportionate. I won’t talk to a person that hate me because what I am, because there’s no room for mistake there . But I don’t think is adequa to cut a relationship because I think myself better knowing that the other person.
In this instance for instance 6 years ago I said her that I would vote socialist, she said to me that they will steal from me, I said they won’t. Last week police report, big corruption case in the socialist party. I was wrong her was Right. And she didn’t cut our relationship back then, and she is not cutting it right now. Why should I? We all are humans we all could be wrong, she could be right and vox may not discriminate against LGBT or she may be wrong and they will do it. The important thing to me is that she, her self, will not discriminate against LGBT (not too much at least, as I said she has some prejudices, she is conservative after all, it’s not like she is super progressive and it’s been voting to the alt-right by mistake, but they don’t bother me that much, once again I’m very open minded, and their beliefs while conservative are more on the line of moderate conservative, a center right kind of thing).
You do you. I’m just explaining why many people, myself included, do not cut people out because their general political beliefs or the party they vote for. If you feel better doing it, be my guess, that’s your decision.
I don’t get along well with people who aren’t at least within “discussing distance” politically. I wonder how people even date when they don’t agree on some fundamentals.
A lot of people saying how does this happen, it happens over time with small shifts. It happens because our stability as communities and nations is changing faster and more frequently.
Question is when do you take off the wedding ring? (or mental equivalent) because your promise to this person is most likely the strongest conviction most people hold. For better or for worse, implies we understand a partnership has ups and downs that we ride through. A fundamental change is attitude could be seen as an up or a down.
Your assessment makes sense, but some of the mismatched relationships mentioned here sound like they started out unbalanced, and that must be the case. Some couples are clearly doomed much earlier on.
Considering we are reaching a point where the political differences May very well might be whether your spouse deserves to exist and not be chattel breeding slaves, yeah easy to guess why it’s a deal breaker.
My wife is subjective and I am objective. This has caused her to get quite upset in conversations.
Tbf, objectivity is made of subjectivity.
I love the virtue signaling the OP triggered haha
No shit
It’s good to challenge and confirm common sense scientifically. There are many examples where common sense wasn’t as sensible as originally thought.
Why date someone who actively votes against your family’s best interests?
“She wont fuck me any more because I started sucking Charlie Kirk’s cock!”
Ben Shapiro?
Ben Shapiro is saving himself for his sister please don’t spread misinformation
Was my first thought too.
The real question: how do they make it past the dating stage?
Most people don’t care that much and they are not that passionate about politics.
For some people politics ideologies is not the central point of their lives. Thus it really doesn’t become something that disallow dating.
I was raised a combination of atheist (mom) and Quaker (dad) - the atheism definitely won, though I did internalize a decent amount of the Quakerism… I was engaged to a Catholic girl in my mid-20s. We discussed things early on, I said I’d respect her beliefs if she’d respect my lack thereof, and for a while it worked out nicely, we’d talk about spiritual stuff, but neither of us was trying to convert the other, it was more of a “how do you feel about x” or “how do you explain y”… But after a while, she decided that since I was “preventing” her from going to church some Sundays (I wasn’t, I was fine with her going without me, she just didn’t want to if she had the option to stay in bed and fool around with me, and why on earth would I turn her down?) that she wanted me to go with her the next Sunday whenever she skipped one. In retrospect, this was the first nail in the coffin of our relationship, but of course I didn’t recognize it at the time. It took us moving in together permanently for me to see how controlling she was, and how mean she could be if she didn’t get her way…
She was a church-going catholic, wanted you to go too, but was living together before marriage (mortal sin), fooling around (mortal sin) and engaged to an atheist (not a sin in itself but frowned upon)? I mean yeah, just the sheer contradiction of these is a red flag, no wonder the girl ended up being messed up later on
Sometimes you don’t know. Or think it’s not important.
There’s this thing basically (you’ve probably heard about it), “I don’t like X people, but you’re good because you’re not like them”. X can be race, gender, any other things. When you are with that kinda person as long as they like you, you won’t feel how they are, they’ll treat you nice but it’s an exception not the rule. But when they don’t like you, they revert back to treating you like the X group. They’ll even go “I knew X would be like this” and all.
Now in many cases if they were vocal about it from the beginning you’d notice and might get away. But in many cases they won’t be vocal, or they’ll talk about it with some extreme examples which you might feel is justified and you know you’re not like that so it’s fine. And in those cases you yourself might hate those subgroup for ruining your reputation so you might even bond over that.
They start out aligned, but then one person’s ideology changes over time (perhaps even after marriage).
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Why would anyone marry a person who openly hates women, minorities, LGBTQ+, and anybody they deem different?
Because one or the other person in the relationship isn’t being honest which happens quite frequently. People in relationships lie by omission all the time.
In a relationship, sure. In a marriage? Can’t help to fault them for not finding out.
Geez with that kind of ability to just magically know everything about someone I’m shocked that you’re here wasting time on the internet. That kind of skill should be put to you saving the world shouldn’t it? Guy over here is basically Wonder Woman’s lasso.
Chill. There was no reason to go off on this guy. And you really did. WTH?
Here’s a thing. There are people who have mental illness that absolutely does interfere with their ability to be honest about who and what they are.
There’s also a whole host of other things like neurological divergence that causes people to mask. Both behaviours and views to fit in. Some people know deep down that their beliefs are wrong but they are selfish about the investment they feel they have in another person, so much so that they won’t leave because they don’t think they can get someone else. Trying to boil something down to “you were married, you should have known”, especially when marriage for love in history is a relatively very new thing is kind of ridiculous. I’ve been married for 12 years. I still don’t know everything about my spouse or their views. And given that people’s views can change drastically over time, it’s reasonable to assume that one or the other person is going to disagree about something they may have believed a year ago or 5 years ago etc.
I’ve been married twice. I certainly wasn’t expecting the first person I married to leave me in crippling debt because he couldn’t take care of himself or be an adult. I had no reason to think he would just stop paying bills. No reason to think he’d get addicted to pills and hide it from me. People. Change.
I didn’t say I magically know everything about anyone. I said if I’m marrying someone, I make it my business to find out who they are.
Okay I got it. So you have a magical power that as soon as you say I do you gain full and complete total knowledge of somebody. Impossible to fool no way whatsoever something could get by you. We’re taking you to Vegas. Going to set up a CIA black site and an Elvis impersonator and get some shit done.
Are you 11?
Not able to discern that huh? Don’t worry I know it’s just cuz we haven’t said I do yet.
My wife lied about who she was and what she wanted from me for 20 years before she started fucking another guy… She even managed to hide that from me for a few months, and continued to try to hide it as I figured out what was going on… I ended up having to talk to the guy (because of course it was someone we both knew) to get confirmation- and I thought it had only just started, he’s the one who told me it had been going on for months. He said she told him we were already separated, just living in the same house to keep things stable for the kids… He seemed genuinely distressed and apologetic to find out that wasn’t true, and from my wife’s change in demeanor afterwards, I think he broke it off with her, though she was still trying to stay close to him, under the guise of letting our kids play together… But I suspect even that’s stopped now, based on what I hear from our daughter… Sounds like she’s latched onto another guy she works with… Which is how we met way back when… And she still hasn’t filed the divorce papers, she started working on it back in March… At this point I’m going to beat her to it, I’ve been talking to a couple lawyers…
That’s different. I’m sure she still holds most of the same values she did when you two got married. Cheating, of course, is awful, but it doesn’t touch all aspects of your life so it’s much easier to hide. I’m talking about people who end up marrying someone who turns out to be a Nazi or the likes. I find it hard to believe that they didn’t know before marrying them.
Are you trying to imply that the people you disagree with politically - presumably those to the right of center - all fit into the cartoon caricature you just painted? The things you listed aren’t even political issues but social ones.
You’re right, there is a huge chunk of right of center people who hate women and minorities but keep their opinions behind closed doors. How could OP have lumped them with those who are open about those opinions!
Just for your edification I have that guy tagged as the Avatar of Elon Musk. As in he says the most horrific things you’ll ever see and then describes himself as center right. There was a thread a few days ago where he argued that Free Will shouldn’t exist and we should all just follow the orders of our betters. Presumably Elon Musk.
Sounds like a typical enlightened centrist.
Curiously, once you Scooby Doo their mask off they’re always quite far to the right of the centre they claim to value so much.
Zealots have zero appreciation for nuance in life.
Everyone who has an opinion that doesn’t match theirs 100% is a Nazi that should put into a fema camp staffed by Obama death panels. That’s the only solution tbh
I would so be consigned to fema obama camp panel death with the nazi 100% only solution. Yup. That would be me.
I couldn’t imagine marrying someone with totally opposing political views. Disagreements on some issues sure, but totally opposing political views is essentially like having totally opposing values, morals and ethics to a degree, etc. Base things that play a role in determining compatibility.
Dating someone with opposing views is the easier of two situations people can find themselves in.
The harder situation is when you date and marry someone with similar views to yours, but then 5, 10, 15, etc years into the marriage they get radicalized by family members or YouTube. And suddenly their opinions change overnight and you are legally bound to an angry, hostile stranger.
The good old dehu-Manosphere. Malignant, cancerous trash run by grifters and signal boosted by insecure mysognists.
Edit: I see we have some fans of Joe Rogaine, Jordan Small-Peterson, and or Andrew T-hate on here.
I thought I was going crazy when this person I went on a couple dates with told me she was gonna pursue the other guy. She had said he was a Trump supporter and was offended at some things he’d said to her. Must have had she face of a movie star and a genius in bed. I was pretty offended, but whatever.
Sounds like you dodged a massive bullet lol.
My partner is a refugee who escaped a regime that locked her up for advocating for democracy, so I clearly won.
Some women never grow out of their “bad boys” phase, so there’s that.
Ya. That’s how I get laid. Bad girls. We ain’t talkin politics.
Yeah, if my wife didn’t think other people deserved the right to exist it would put quite the strain on our relationship.
