Edit 2025-01-13: LW has indicated they will be clarifying these rules soon. In the mean time, the community will remain locked until those are updated and deemed acceptable.
So the LW Team put out an announcement on new, site-wide moderation policy (see post link). I’ve defended, to many a downvote, pretty much every major decision they’ve made, but I absolutely cannot defend this one. In short, mods are expected to counter pretty much every batshit claim rather than mod it as misinformation, trolling, attack on groups, etc.
My rebuttal (using my main account) to the announcement: https://dubvee.org/comment/3541322
We’re going to allow some “flat earth” comments. We’re going to force some moderators to accept some “flat earth” comments. The point of this is that you should be able to counter those comments with words, and not need moderation/admin tools to do so.
(emphases mine)
Me: What if, to use the recent example from Meta, someone comes into a LGBT+ community and says they think being gay is a mental illness and /or link some quack study? Is that an attack on a group or is it “respectful dissent”?
LW: A lot of attacks like that are common and worth refuting once in awhile anyway. It can be valuable to show the response on occasion
I understand what they’re trying to address here (highly encourage you to read the linked post), but the way they’re going about it is heavy handed and reeks of “both sides”-ing every community, removing agency from the community moderators who work like hell to keep these spaces safe and civil, and opening the floodgates for misinformation and “civil” hate speech. How this new policy fits with their Terms of Service is completely lost to me.
I’ll leave the speculation as to whether Musk dropped LW a big check as an exercise to the reader.
For now, this community is going dark in protest and I encourage other communities who may disagree with this new policy to join. Again, I understand the problem that is trying to be addressed, but this new policy, as-written, is not the way to do it.
So you (self-admittedly maining on another instance (in reality the admin of that instance)) are locking an entire community on LW in protest of their admin policy on their instance? That’s bold, to put it mildly. You instance-ban users for downvoting, so it makes sense you find this change personally unreasonable.
Myself? I don’t think the new change is a great idea, but I prefer it to short-fuse blanket bannings like that.
Yep, sure do! But only on my own instance in accordance with our polices; communities I moderate elsewhere are modded according to those instances’ rules and TOS.
If someone does nothing but give out downvotes (the upvotes-given to downvotes-given ratio threshold for the automated ban is quite generous), then they’re contributing nothing but negativity and shitting on things for everyone else. If everything here displeases them so much, they can and should go somewhere else.
I stand by (and have reviewed) every automated “Mass downvoting” ban my automod has issued.
Yep, sure do! But only on my own instance in accordance with our polices; communities I moderate elsewhere are modded according to those instances’ rules and TOS.
Your soft-banning of anyone fully participating in this community on LW belies that claim.
the upvotes-given to downvotes-given ratio threshold for the automated ban is quite generous
“Generous” downvote banning. Now that’s an oxymoron.
If I setup 100 fake accounts to downvote every content in a community, how is the mod supposed to react?
That’s not what I’m talking about.
Tl;dr
But: Yes, we need more respectful dissent.
There are so many people who no longer talk to people who think differently. I don’t know whether it’s cowardice or whether they’ve simply never learned to do so, or for whatever reason.
Ehhhh, the problem with that is Brandolini’s law, aka, asymmetrical bullshit.
The process of refuting bullshit takes more time and effort that spewing bullshit.
While the line of what is and isn’t well established enough to not merit dissent vs just removing bullshit can be cloudy, it isn’t cloudy in everything.
Hell, the very example used, flat earth, is 100% not worth refuting again. It’s empty headed bullshit that is so well established that it wastes everyone’s time and electricity countering it at all. It just needs to be moderated away.
There is no respectful dissent about some things, period.
You come out with some anti vaccination stupidity? Bye. You already ignored a century of established data on the subject, one more internet rebuttal isn’t fixing your stupidity.
Come in with nazi rhetoric? Bye, because fuck a nazi piece of shit.
We’re not talking about a difference of opinion on whether roasting is better than pan frying. The kind of things the policy was trying to address are the kind of issues where there’s no such thing as respectful discourse to begin with. It’s about political rhetoric.
The problem is that the admins made the policy over broad, giving it the shotgun treatment, and it was a horrible move.
Just unlock it already, no one gives a shit about your drama with the admins. If you can’t deal with it, move to another instance.
!unpopular@hilariouschaos.com Guess I’ll switch to here. Better a dead community than one held hostage by some power mod.
You know that was what people were saying on reddit during the blackout protests, right?
Why not just migrate to another instance? Have you forgotten that we are in the fediverse? This is a good opportunity to move communities to other instances.
It’s not that easy for some of us. I’m using the voyager app on iOS. Otherwise I have no idea or technical knowledge to get on Lemmy. I don’t know how to change instances and keep what I’ve subscribed to
If you go to the settings (on the website, not in an app) there’s an import/export settings on that page. Save your settings to a file. Then, create an account on a new instance and import that file. Note that you will get subs and blocklist and all that, but your comment history will not follow you.
I don’t use the website. I wouldn’t even know where to go. That’s the problem with Lemmy and the fediverse. I’m not some tech pleeb. I could figure it out, I’m sure, but it’s not where I can just open an opp therefore it’s not something I will do and Lemmy will never supplant Reddit because of that
You don’t need to change the instance of your account to subscribe to any (with the exception of defederated communitys’ instances) community. You simply need to subscribe to the unpopular opinion community in, for example, lemm.ee instead of the one in lemmy.world. You should’ve figured this out by now, with some communities having a
@<instance>
at the end in their names.That’s not how the app works and shows things. That seems more like desktop stuff which is not something to do. I can already subscribe to anything I want, I just don’t know what I can write since I’ve randomly been banned or muted without comment and I understand it’s because of the bullshit moderators I’m on. Someone had to tell me I was on world and now I see it by going to my settings. Otherwise everything looks like and works like Reddit in the app
I’ll leave the speculation as to whether Musk dropped LW a big check as an exercise to the reader.
And u call the right wingers the conspiracy theorists. Musk could not give 2 fucks about lemmy.
The lw admins have realised to compete as a platform in the marketplace if ideas u cannot censor ideas. Musk made the first move meta has been forces to follow as so is lemmy.
Why are u so concerned that u can be held accountable for any authoritarian censorship u may partake in?
Also i dare u to delete this comment.
Is having a site-wide policy controlling who gets to “respectfully disagree” not a control of speech?
Rhink before typibg please. Ur objectivly wrong.
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It doesnt control who gets to respectfully disagree it grants everyone that liberty (u included)
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Its not a control of speach its a control of moderators ability to control speach
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Delete it? I can barely read it.
Gotta love of grammar, Nazi, for always contributing something substantive to any communication.
Hell yeah! I’m with you on this one. Maybe I should start intentionally brigading communities and start spewing fascist bullshit just so they can see how dumb this rule is
But @GrammarPolice@lemmy.world you already do that.
Why are you on my ass bro?
Brother*
Ain’t no way you just correct bro to ‘brother’