Enough with the fan wars. Let’s be perfectly honest for once. Windows, Linux, MacOS - they all suck. Sometimes in similar ways, sometimes in different ways. But they all suck.
Windows users - I get you, you use it because it sorta works 40%, of the time and sucks in the way you understand.
Linux users - I get you, you know all of the arcane incantations you need to quickly install, update, and troubleshoot your os in a terminal window. It works - once you apply your custom bash script that applies every change you need to get everything exactly how you like it. But again, it sucks in the way you understand.
MacOS users - well I don’t really get you. You know what you’ve done.
We deserve better than this, guys. We deserve an os that just works, is easy to use, easy to configure, doesn’t require an IT degree to use, and that we can recommend to our grandma without a second thought.
I could never go back to Windows, after having tasted the freedom of Linux.
Linux has its flaws, but so does Windows. And for me, the flaws in Windows became much more annoying than the ones in Linux. Game compatibility was the main factor that kept me backt from using it on a desktop, and that’s a non issue nowadays.
Flaws I didn’t pay for piss me off a lot less.
While that’s certainly also part of it, I would still stand by my opinion even if Windows was completely free.
Raise your hand if you ever paid for that hot chunk
I consider myself forced to pay for it every time I buy a laptop whose price has to include Microsoft’s cut off the action.
You are not forced, plenty of manufacturers offer FreeDOS variants for so many years, just support them instead.
For me it’s the basic things that drive me crazy in Windows: the Start menu doesn’t work half of the time, and it shows web results above the program you want to run. File operations are slow and the File Explorer crashes a lot. Application windows constantly steal focus from the one I’m typing in, leading to passwords being typed into code, documents, web browsers or other unsafe places. Background indexing is constant and eats up CPU, and the file search still takes forever despite all this indexing.
These are all basic things that Microsoft has had decades to get working, and they’re all still broken. Microsoft always seem to be paying attention to anything but the quality of the user’s experience.
By contrast, Linux is just relaxing.
Man that MS indexing is so terrible. I shut it off because it was robbing my system when trying to work, and as you said it is slow anyway. Compared to GNOME desktop where the indexing is invisible to user, I hit the Suoer key type a few letters it instantly shows me results as you would expect indexing to work.
I don’t understand how Microsoft manage to make it so bad. What kind of index is it building that it can be so slow?
Asking the real questions
and that’s a non issue nowadays.
Again, this community is delusional lol. If you consider only about 5% of Steam games being Linux-friendly these days as “a non issue nowadays,” I’d hate to see your game library.
I game on linux regularly, primarily thanks to Valve. In the last 2 months steam lists 11 different games I’ve “Played Recently”.
- 7 worked flawlessly (Baldur’s Gate 3, Destroy All Humans!, Divinity: Original Sin 2, Besiege, Deep Rock Galactic, Shotgun King, Call of Cthulhu)
- 1 the native linux version doesn’t work, but the windows version works perfectly (Northgard)
- 1 didn’t initially work, but worked a month later after proton was updated. (Grounded)
- 1 I had to choose an older version of Proton (due to the external launcher breaking things), but with enough performance hitching during cutscenes that I chose to just play it on windows (Star Wars Jedi: Fallen Order)
- 1 I couldn’t get to work, but I honestly don’t know if it’s a linux issue because the game’s discussion forums are full of people saying the game is riddled with game breaking bugs on windows (The Sinking City)
I’ve been gaming on linux for a couple of years now, over that time I’ve put many hours into WoW, Sea of Thieves, Rimworld, Golf with your Friends, Core Keeper, Outer Wilds, and dozens more without any issues at all. 90%+ of the time the game starts up and just works.
I’m just one datapoint, but yeah, Linux as a gaming platform is totally viable for me these days.
Also, protondb lists 19% Verified and 16% Playable, so your 5% number is just demonstrably wrong.
Cheers.
If you consider only about 5% of Steam games being Linux-friendly these days
No matter how you twist and turn things, this is just flat out wrong…
Again, this community is delusional lol. If you consider only about 5% of Steam games being Linux-friendly these days as “a non issue nowadays,” I’d hate to see your game library.
Speaking of delusional. You don’t seem to have a whole lot of ideas about Linux gaming if you truly believe this ignorant nonsense.
79% of my library has a Silver or higher rating on ProtonDB, 65% are Gold or Platinum rated. For the Top 100 in Steam it’s even better with 89% Silver+ and 79% Gold+. Of the Top 1000 Steam games it is 87% Silver+ and 75% Gold+. Even if we look at the entire Steam catalog we have 13% & 11% respectively, and that’s only so low because there’s literally just no reports. Only 1% of the titles are considered to be “Borked”, another 1% are Bronze rated.
You can check the data for yourself here: https://www.protondb.com/
And again, that’s just Steam and what has been tested by people. Most titles just run, others require minimal tweaking, some require a little tinkering.I’m curious what the number is excluding top games with DRM or anti cheat incompatibility
DRM isn’t really an issue. The main one that’s used nowadays is Denuvo and that has no issues with Linux. Anticheat usually only for competitive games, which I personally don’t give a damn. Other multiplayer games and their anticheat work fine, since they aren’t on a kernel level type rootkit.
Most of what you are missing out on are games that require some form of anti cheat. Most other stuff just runs. Most new triple A games just run these days.
I’m still dualbooting Windows to play games with a controller until I can get off my ass and buy a USB hub. Reason being that the Xbox Series controllers has issues with my mobo’s Bluetooth chipset, even when updating the firmware. Bluetooth support is particularly inconsistent with these.
But outside of the odd app that needs Windows (and I can just boot a VM for that), Linux has been really good on the desktop.
I invested in an Icy Box IB-AC6110 powered 10 port usb hub a while ago too, but it is more for additional controllers, specifically joysticks and the likes. Mainboards just don’t have enough USB ports for all that. Dual sticks or a hotas? Two gone. Maybe some pedals? Now it is 3. How about a camera and a head tracker? Well, 4-5 depending on your product solution. Defo gives me some peace of mind to be good on USB ports.
yeah, thankfully I can go a bit more basic than that, I just need to figure out what hub, or even cable, I wanna get.
I have been using this hub. Works fine in Linux and windows.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B0871ZHCKK?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_mob_b_asin_title
I also use this usb dongle for my Xbox controller. It works fine in Linux. I really should try playing a few games on Linux.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B0785SFKYF?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_mob_b_asin_title
Mine is VST’s and games. Never had much luck using a vst bridge/wine, so i just went back to windows.
Game compatibility
Steam+Proton is pretty impressive. I can play Baldur’s Gate 3 on my Thelio. Does get a little toasty, though …
I always see people say this but does no one here use professional apps like solidworks or revit? Are there good Linux alternatives? I’d switch to Linux but I need solidworks for work I do.
Windows is the defacto standard for desktop PCs for a reason. In a corporate setting it’s kind of the ideal.
Because of the sheer number of users, most software is built with Windows in mind and therefore has the most support. It’s pretty rare that you find an application that doesn’t have a Windows build available.
On top of that tools like Active Directory, and group policy makes managing thousands of machines at scale a reasonably simple affair.
Microsoft is a corporation rather than a community so you can always expect their main goals to be profit-driven and that comes with some nasty baggage, but it’s not enough that it’s easy for professionals to make the switch.
Linux has made lightspeed progress over the last decade, especially with Proton making games mostly work cross platform, but outside of specialist use cases, the vast majority of business PCs and by extension home PCs will be running Windows for the foreseeable future.
I work in software and I haven’t touched windows in a very long time. Even back whenever I worked on FPGA development all of that software ram on Linux, so I think you’ll find that this is very field dependent.
Closest thing I use to a professional app is DaVinci Resolve Studio on a distribution that is not officially supported by Blackmagic. Not only does Resolve Studio work perfectly, I am able to use Blackmagic hardware (Intensity Pro 4k, Speed Editor) without having to mess around with settings, config files, permissions, packages, etc.
The caveat here is the initial setup: I use an AMD GPU, and it’s a bit of a pain to get the free and licensed versions of Resolve working with those under Linux. However, once that’s out of the way, it’s completely seamless.
As for CAD…yeah that’s where everything falls over. There are tons of FOSS alternatives out there but I have yet to see any of them in a professional setting. Even Fusion360 is hit or miss under Wine, I spun up a Windows VM just to use that for my 3D printer tinkering.
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Onshape web based CAD from former SW employees. or if work is paying licenses you can run Siemens NX12 on linux (REL, SUSE, or OpenSUSE)
Idk is it CAD software? I know there are webapps for that now
Windows with WSL became a lot better to what Windows used to be but with the TPM requirement Win11 became factually less compatible that modern Linux (at least without fiddling to override that requirement).
And even WSL is essentially just a Linux VM.
Windows: “We dropped support for that thing you bought brand new 5 years ago”
Linux: “We are considering dropping support for something that has existed for longer than you had”
Linux: “We’re dropping support for this device because we’re fairly sure we had the last one in existence and it just died.”
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Hell, I can get a 30 year old HP LaserJet 4 printer working just fine on almost any version of Linux with the official HPLIP CLI software provided by (shockingly) HP, which was updated 2 months ago with support for over 50 new printers and the following OSes:
- LinuxMint 21.1
- MxLinux 21.3
- Elementary OS 7
- Ubuntu 22.10
- RHEL 8.6
- RHEL 8.7
- RHEL 9.1
- Fedora 37
I HATE HP and their printers (PC LOAD LETTER WTF FOR LIFE) but I will admit that this is impressive support.
Gentoo: yeah I’ll run on a potato if you tell me how to do it.
NetBSD: we already run on the potato, oh and that yam over there.
Still can’t believe they dropped support for i386 😤
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True, but getting that thing that’s older than you to actually work is going to require recompiling your kernel with some specific options, downloading a driver from an obscure git repo, running a tool to generate a config file, manually editing that config, and then running another tool to install the driver and then troubleshooting what went wrong.
Oh, wait, that was me trying to use my relatively new Sound Blaster sound card when experimenting with Linux 20 years ago. Linux had terrible support for ISA Plug and Play cards for some reason.
By comparison my solution to windows dropping support for a thing was to grab the cheapest PC I could find that might hypothetically work and stick an old version of windows on it that still had support and just not connect it to the Internet.
20 years ago? Try installing Linux on that same hardware now. Now try installing Windows?
Try the same experiment with any hardware 5 years old or older. Linux wins every time.
People will say that on newer hardware, Windows is better. Partially true. New hardware that was designed to ship with Windows will work better. A fair comparison would be hardware that ships with Linux.
Proprietary firmware has always been an issue ( like Broadcom and like NVIDIA ), especially on distros like Debian that could not ship non-free firmware. The situation has improved though. Even NVIDIA will ship out of the box soon. And Debian will shop non-free firmware now so those old Broadcom cards should work.
One of my favourite things about Linux is how much easier it is to get it running on random hardware, especially “out of the box” without having to track down drivers or install stuff after. With older Apple hardware, it is not just easier but it may be the only way to use modern software at all. I confess though that I am mostly speaking about older hardware.
carefully select hardware
lmao, i’ve exclusively run linux on franken pcs cobbled together out of mostly second hand parts
Pop OS has native drivers for nVidia GPUs even 😎🐧
Correction: POP!_OS has their own APT deb farm that has the latest hardware stack. This includes the proprietary 535 nvidia driver and later as well as the kernel and mesa.
This is part of the history of the distribution as it was made to support system76’s latest hardware lineup on top of an Ubuntu base.
Nouveau is the libre driver for Nvidia on GNU/Linux with Nvidia slowly segregating their proprietary driver into a firmware blob.
I think this is a bit misleading.
Most or at least the majority of distros offer the proprietary nvidia driver.
Pop, Zorin, Ubuntu, Garuda, etc just bundle it in the install media as an option.
I definitely had much less issues with my Nvidia card on pop os than I did with any of the other like 5 distros I tried.
have been using various distros over the years and never had issues with the nvidia driver on any of them 🤷♂️
Do you game?
I did back then. Not such much these days.
Linux has always been my go to for that specific use case as well, and I honestly have very little Linux experience. Linux just makes bizarre half broken hardware, like bad ram, work.
The first thing I installed windows on was an discarded office tower that I had to put new memory And hard drives in. Shit was ancient and specifically did not want anything but windows installed on it. Installed Linux anyway. Works great. No specific hardware
I have a Jellyfin server running in the office. The video card is about 6 months old. The CPU, case, and motherboard are going on 12 years old.
That’s much easier grounds then… checks notes… a modern laptop straight from the factory.
I’ve worked exclusively with Linux servers since 2002 and exclusively Linux desktop since 2004 and I’ve come to the point where I prettyuch refuse to touch windows for fear it will infect me somehow.
I know most people don’t know any better but it’s insanity to me that anyone still pays money for windows. It’s a scam, no other words for it.
Don’t even get me started on Windows servers. It’s just sad to see how much money is spent on a company that has so litte focus on quality.
Even the online services suck. Dear God Microsoft, would it kill you to understand that people might have gasp TWO tabs open with your teams “app”?
Even azure runs Linux
To think that even daedric prince would do that.
It’s the professional software that’s lacking in Linux, and that’s the only reason I keep a Windows machine around. For music production, video production, design work, photography and so on, Windows has good commercial software that is well established in these professions.
But for most people, including gamers, Linux is a very good option right now.
I recently setup a Windows vm for my mum because she also needs photo and video editing sw and isn’t happy with the Linux alternatives. This works astonishingly well. Virtualbox even has a mode now to fully integrate the vm into the existing desktop, so basically she just gets the windows status bar in addition to the Linux one when she starts the vm. Windows programs open as if they were running natively. Might be worth a try for you.
I prettyuch refuse to touch windows for fear it will infect me somehow.
Don’t worry. It won’t. It’ll just frustrate you. Windows has gone seriously downhill since 7.
It was alret horrible at 95. I used windows for about a good 2 years in my life. I’ve been on Amiga is before, Unix osses for a while and over 21 years now on Linux. Windows, any version, compared to any of those is a joke
I’ve used Linux since about 2004 for personal use. On my homer server(s) and desktop. 95% of them Gentoo (stable). For my relatives I’ve installed some EL workstation distro. Especially my father needs a install-and-forget system, which Windows isn’t.
But I do install and fix Windows PCs at my work. It’s because how Windows works (or rather not work) I get paid. That said, the more I use Windows the more I get frustrated with it.
One of the worst things lately was the accidental activation of BitLocker. It got activated even when the user didn’t have Microsoft account (from where he/she would retrieve the encryption key to decrypt the data if Windows decides to lock the drive). “Oh I’m sorry, but because M$ fuckup your data is gone. Do you have backups? 😇” To avoid any BitLocker issues the secure boot should be disabled. BitLocker shouldn’t then be available for activation.
Some of the frustrating sides of Windows can be avoided by using Pro version of Windows. But that’s simply not enough.
IMO the only reason to use (suffer from) Windows is if you play some games that require it.
My personal solution to that problem ist to not play those games. There’s plenty of stuff to play on Steam that runs fine on Linux.
not play those games
My tactic as well. 😉
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it started all with knowing a little bit of linux and applying for every position with linux in the description.
Thanks. Gives me hope for the better.
My job description may change soon. However, if it doesn’t, I may start doing exactly that - looking for a better job.
I like Linux a lot, but saying you can’t understand why someone would run Windows on a server just shows a lack of knowledge. Linux is great in a lot of server applications in the application realm. However, it doesn’t get close to the power of Active Directory and Group Policy for Windows device management. Besides that, a lot of people are more comfortable with a UI for managing DHCP, DNA, etc in a SMB environment. Even if they prefer a command line for those tools PowerShell allows those people to coexist with those that prefer a GUI. Under certain circumstances, (mainly ones where a business is forgoing AD for AAD), Linux can be the right choice. Pretending that there’s no place for Windows Server, though, is asinine.
Have you used windows before? It’s flaming garbage. Been using various oses for decades and I still rediscover how shitty windows is on the regular.
Yeah, and Linux still doesn’t have a good answer to AD for managing suites of end user machines. Linux has a lot going for it - but windows isn’t strictly inferior or anything.
Honestly, the entire AD suite with auth and everything else built in is genuinely a good product. And if what you want is supported by Microsoft, their other services are decent as well.
freeipa is pretty good, although i agree that it’s easier to just use AD
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Lmao that’s not just for AD
I only know OpenLDAP and FreeIPA, if there are any other alternatives you got please mention them
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But if the windows fanboy doesn’t know about it, it’s not real. Or if it is, it’s not good! /s
This community is very much a “Windows bad” community. I personally find that annoying as I use Windows and Linux. Both have their pros and cons. Windows though is seen here as the shitest OS out there which far from the truth.
PowerShell is amazing and I install it on my Linux desktop.
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I was flirting with Linux for 20 years. There was always something that put me off an I went back to Windows. Recently I installed ubuntu with Kde plasma and I’m not going back. It just works and is heaps faster on older hardware. The old driver issues are gone, compatibility is awesome. The only issue is getting used to new software names.
They have a point. I’m in the market for a new laptop and I have, so far, returned two of them.
First, I tried a Huawei Matebook 16. I was foolish, but I thought it was “easy”. No NVidia, no dGPU at all - just part that looked very standard. It was based on the info I had gathered from a few years of Linux usage: “Basically avoid NVidia and you’re good”. It was anything but. Broken suspend, WiFi was horrible, random deadlocks, extreme slowness at times (as if the RYZEN 7 wasn’t Ryzen 7-ing) to become less smooth than my 5 year old Intel laptop, and broken audio codec (Senary Audio) that didn’t work at all on the live, and worked erratically on the installed system using generic hd-audio drivers.
I had a ~€1500 budget, but I raised it to buy a €1700 ThinkPad P16s AMD. No dGPU to speak of, sold with pre loaded Linux, boasting Canonical and Red Hat hardware certifications.
I had:
- Broken standby on Linux
- GPU bugs and screen flickering on Linux
- Various hangs and crashed
- Malfunctioning wifi and non working 6e mode. I dug, and apparently the soldered Wi-Fi adapter does not have any kind of Linux support at all, but the kernel uses a quirk to load the firmware of an older Qualcomm card that’s kinda similar on it and get it to work in Wi-Fi 6 compatibility mode.
Boggles my mind that the 2 biggest enterprise Linux vendors took this laptop, ran a “thorough hardware certification process” on it and let it pass. Is this a pass? How long have they tried it? Have they even tried suspending?
Of course, that was a return. But when I think about new laptops and Windows 11, basically anything works. You don’t have to pay attention to anything: suspend will work, WiFi will work, audio and speakers as well, if you need fractional scaling you aren’t in for a world of pain, and if you want an NVidia dGPU, it does work.
Furthermore, the Windows 11 compatible CPU list is completely
unofficialarbitrary, since you can still sideload Windows 11 on “unsupported” hardware and it will run with a far higher success rate than Linux on a random laptop you buy in store now. Like, it has been confirmed to run well on ancient Intel CPUs with screens below the minimum resolution. It’s basically a skin over 10 and there are no significant kernel modifications.To be clear: I don’t like Windows, but I hate this post as a consumer of bleeding edge hardware because it hides the problem under the rug - most new hardware is Windows-centric, and Linux supported options are few and far between. Nowdays not even the manufacturer declaring Linux support is enough. This friend of mine got a Dell XPS 13 Plus Developer Edition, and if he uses ANY ISO except the default Dell-customized Ubuntu 20.04 audio doesn’t work at all! And my other friend with a Dell XPS 13 Developer Edition has various GPU artifacts on the screen on anything except the relative Dell-customized Ubuntu 20.04 image. It’s such a minefield.
I have effectively added €500 to my budget, to now reach an outrageous €2000 for a premium Linux laptop with no significant trade-offs (mostly, I want a good screen and good performance). I am considering taking a shot in the dark and pre ordering the Framework 16, effectively swaying from traditional laptop makers entirely and hoping a fully customized laptop by a company that has been long committed to Linux support will be different.
Wha? Even a bleeping potato can run Linux nowadays, with zero issues at day 1.
t. Got a Orange pi zero 3, and the lil’ bastard is rocking solid – even with (near zero) support.
Imagine not having all your drivers baked in into your kernel
Imagine not knowing about kernel modules 🤣
shit like this comment thread is why regular people use windows. who the fuck wants to learn about this kind of stuff when you can just point and click? especially when the people who should be helping you post brain-dead self-congratulatory gate-keeping shit like this.
if y’all want people to use linux maybe make it palatable instead of maintaining its difficulty so you can get a chubby about how smart you are
shit like this comment thread is why regular people use windows
No, regular people use Windows because that’s what their device they purchased came with. If they bought a Chromebook instead for example, they’d be using ChromeOS which is based on Linux, and if they bought a Smart TV, it’d probably be running some sort of Linux-based OS as well.
Regular people don’t know or care about Linux, nor what operating system their device is running - they just want a device that’s easy to use, looks good, has a good price and can let them use Facebook, Zoom etc or whatever it is they’re expecting from that device.
who the fuck wants to learn about this kind of stuff when you can just point and click
There’s no need to learn about this stuff, Linux is already just point and click. The main hurdle these days is installing it on a PC, egular people don’t mess around with the OS on their device, they just use whatever it is that came on their device. They shouldn’t have any big issues using Linux (especially if it’s a user-friendly distro like Zorin OS), as long as it’s already installed on their machines.
if y’all want people to use linux maybe make it palatable
It is already palatable, we just haven’t gotten mainstream manufactures to sell preloaded devices to the masses. There are some OEMs like System76 that are doing a good job, but they haven’t hit mass market yet. What Linux needs is a partnership with mainstream manufacturers and some big $$$ invested into marketing, plus partnering with retail outets like Best Buy etc. And maybe have a hardware certification program, like how Windows has the WHQL. Market the hell out of it, pass out shiny “Linux compatible” stickers to vendors, put Linux on sleek and shiny MacBook-like devices, and you’ll find regular people getting into Linux.
this is copium my friend. look at these forums, you don’t find people talking about proselytizing ubuntu and mint, it’s people circlejerking about how cool they are for using kali and arch and knowing whatever minutiae of computing
also the front page of this very community has multiple posts from people whose systems aren’t working, or who are worried about software being incompatible with linux. it’s still not easy. and Ubuntu came pre-loaded on computers a decade ago and that didn’t really do anything.
What a weirdly specific thing to get mad about.
i sort of get them, actually. as a nontech person who shifted to Linux out of necessity, i just wanted it to work.
i dont have to imagine not knowing what a kernel module because i still dont, despite using it for years.I guess I would also be pretty sore if I didn’t have… checks notes - all my drivers baked into my kernel?
A joke about potatoes? You elitists.
@sab @OsrsNeedsF2P @GustavoM @Kidplayer_666 @db2 @AngrilyEatingMuffins @bear I bet these idiots don’t even butter their drivers before baking them into the kernel
smug senses of superiority in the FOSS community?
amazing… no wonder linux use has only grown if you include the steam deck and closed off governmental systems
You might need another muffin. You’re a little hangry.
another smug message! surprise
god forbid i actually want people to use FOSS
You could try not being a dick. Just a thought.
Edit: after seeing your other comments it’s pretty clear you’re a troll.
I’d say the same to you
if y’all want people to use linux maybe make it palatable instead of maintaining its difficulty so you can get a chubby about how smart you are
I wont speak for others but personally, I’m not really interested in point and clickers using linux - there are people who work on mint and ubuntu and stuff for them.
again, personally, i don’t think linux is the right choice for people don’t want to learn some of that and who won’t ever use Command line interface.
I wouldn’t recommend it for them - tbf mostly because I’ve no interest in being tech support for them, just like i didn’t for windows back when i knew how to solve some problems ( type “regedit”).
unless they only have a potato, then i think linux is more likely to fit a decent amount of their needs.
though i would normally say it costs them little more than a few hours to test out a live usb boot system.but the main point is that the linux community is very diverse, as are all the different distros and projects - so it is not easy to pigeonhole all of them as sharing any one sentiment.
some of the people and distros will be supportive of those users, others won’t.
it’s a bit like most collections of humans in that respect.
If someone made a GUI to handle kernel modules and people could point and click through them, would that be okay?
that really doesn’t have anything to do with what i’m talking about.
You said people wanted to point and click. I agree: I’ve seen many Windows admins VNC to a desktop environment to get to a shell rather than use SSH
So if everything in Linux was accessible from a GUI, would that make it better? Because Windows does similar things, and so does Mac OS. They just use pretty pictures instead of words.
ah, i see now. it’s more about things just working and it being right there
even what distro to choose is already a thing people have to actively research. most people are more interested in just having the thing simply work, than they are having it work in a way that they’ve customized, if that road takes more than minimal effort. i think that the divide is actively growing now, and that the easy access of smartphones and most apps not having much customization is probably part of it.
I remember when you had to use this newfangled “kernel module” business if you had two Ethernet cards using the same driver, because a non-module driver would only detect one …
Nvidia users
I think the main trouble makers for consumers are the odd network or bluetooth controllers, especially in laptops, which often come with some exotic bullshit.
Imagine being in the orange forum and thinking everybody’s using Mac…
Some builds can get really tetchy about laptop hardware, but that’s almost always older hardware.
Though I will say it took entirely too long for most builds to have a “change what closing the lid” does menu option rather than making you modify a .conf file.
And don’t get me started on resolution switching when hot swapping display inputs.
Blows my mind that anyone would use windows.
Everyone acts like nvidia support on linux is completely broken. I game with nvidia on mine regularly and have never had a driver bug.
It’s not that it’s broken, it’s that the open source driver stack and AMD cards are a superior experience. The Nvidia Linux driver is just like the Windows driver.
I think it’s more that they are broken (esp. on Wayland) and that they are closed source and that they are not pre-installed in Mesa and that they lack basic features such as GAMMA_LUT for night light on Wayland…
To clarify on why it’s especially terrifying, for the nVidia drivers to be closed source, they’ve been allowed to add binaries into the Linux kernel. Nobody but nVidia knows what those binaries actually contain.
The entire
linux-firmwarepackage is just a conjuntion of binary blobs from different vendos (one of with is AMD). This is nothing special.Sure, and I don’t like any of it.
Raytracing is mostly fucked though, otherwise I’d be gaming exclusively on Linux as well. Aside from that though I’ve never had any issues with Nvidia on Linux.
What do you mean it’s fucked? I’ve read this before but honestly Cyberpunk 2077 runs way better for me on Linux and I think it looks great. Never checked settings in detail since it seemed to do a good job of automatically selecting graphics settings. I have an Nvidia card on pop_OS and it works better than I ever thought gaming on Linux could!
Is that using Dynamic Res Scaling? I was also impressed with the ray tracing performance of cp2077 on linux until I realized that was doing a lot of the heavy lifting.
The reality is, it’s going through a translation layer, so it’s simply not possible for linux to run better than windows on the same hw, unless there is something hampering the windows config. But it does run better than I thought it could.
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Surely we can admit that Linux is ready for general population on the desktop? It’s the better choice overall, but the barrier to entry is very high.
Edit: I mistyped and missed the word “not”. It’s “not ready for general population on the desktop”. Sorry guys.
There’s this thing I notice. If windows asks you to learn something or put up with some BS it’s seen as the cost of business, reasonable, or simply not even noticed. If Linux requires you to learn something, like read one article about which distro might work best for you, it’s seen as an insurmountable difficulty or an absurd ask.
Every time I’ve been asked to learn about Windows this year has resulted in “Haha fuck you who do you think you are? The owner of this computer? Eat shit pleb you belong to steve balmer now”.
You wouldn’t believe the amount of bullshit you have to go through to exorcise Edge. Some people told me “This is to protect the user” so i sent them back a picture of system.32 in the recycle bin.
I quit windows after I spent a few hours trying to get permission to delete a file I knew I didn’t need but but windows just refused to allow even admin accounts to touch. Had to dig so deep into windows settings.
I had same problem multiple times when I tried Windows. The recommendations I could find on internet were to disable fast startup and boot into live Linux disc.
Ya that’s about right. Next step is from that live Linux disc install Linux.
it’s sunk cost bias. I have this trying to use windows or macos, after using linux exclusively for half my life - everything feels foreign and frustrating, with an obnoxious amount of UX patterns you’re expected to know in order to find anything. ugh, I could rant for hours on how obtuse macos is (mainly because I have to interact with it for work right now - if you force me to use windows, I’ll rant about that too)
The nice thing about Linux is you can pick a DE that apes whatever OS you’re used to so the transition from Windows or Mac to desktop Linux can be very painless.
dear god if I could just run xmonad and dmenu on windows or mac I’d hate employers that tried to force me to use one or the other so much less.
oh my god another xmonad user. You can get almost close with some paid tiling window managers in mac but you can’t recreate the managed layouts of xmonad.
yep stuck on Xorg forever gang
Cries in perfectly managed window layouts and reasonable defaults.
Except that’s an article we would probably read, unless we’re already set in our ways.
Also the half life of windows knowledge is a lot lower than linux knowledge. Under windows: when you have this problem, click here, click there, find this button, select this option and then it might help, until the next version changes everything. Under linux you find this config file, change this line to that and the fix will likely survive multiple system upgrades and could even work on different distributions.
Absolutely. Once you spend just a bit of time figuring out how config files work suddenly fixing problems on and maintaining your Linux system is far easier than windows. Not hidden behind layers of bad UI that doesn’t work. Just edit the file. Restart the process.
I don’t use linux because a linux computer is not usable for me. I use mine for blender(works on Linux), Creo(does not work), DCS(no linux support, people say it’s hard to get working with wine/proton game things) and Destiny (anti cheat will ban you if you run it through one of the linux game things). Like it or not, “just learn an entire new os and new software for all the things you want to do” is not an option for most people.
No I’ll never deny that. Some things do only work in very specific environments. I’ll also never pretend learning is a task with zero effort or that everyone is interested in doing. What bugs me is when people are dishonest about it. Linux is not impossibly difficult to use nor is Windows a sublime user experience with no friction.
Anticheat though ya that’s fucked. Hate that. I’ll admit I have a Windows partition solely for playing the few games that require it. Though haven’t booted it in a year or so.
I know hardware compatibility has massively improved, but back when I was messing with Linux in high school compatibility was a huge issue. I managed to end up with two laptops and some desktop hardware that were truly difficult to get running. It’s like I somehow found a list of incompatible hardware and chose the worst options.
The most frustrating were an evil Broadcom (I think) wireless card and an AMD switchable card (they did actually make a few). That graphics card wasn’t supported for very long and was a bother even in Windows.
You know, I’ve been using Linux on desktops and laptops for like 20 years now. I can count on one hand then number of times I’ve had hardware support issues. Outside of a fingerprint scanner, I’ve been able to solve all of those issues.
Meanwhile, my adventures across the years dealing with Windows drivers led me to finally say “fuck it” earlier this year and nuke the Windows install on my gaming rig in favor of Nobara.
I’ll take Linux hardware support over Microsoft any day of the week.
That reminds me of a Microsoft-branded USB WiFi adapter that I was making heavy use of back in mid-2000s. The MN-510. You could buy it brand-new circa 2006. It had a $75 launch MSRP, about $114 adjusted for inflation. Come 2009, we find out that Windows 7 wasn’t going to support it. And given what we know about OS development cycles, they presumably made that call in '08 or even '07. Looking back on it, I think this was one of the major catalysts for me to reconsider Linux as a drop-in replacement. Because, wouldn’t you know, the adapter kept working just fine when I tried it out in Ubuntu. Support was simply there in the kernel. Plug-and-play. I suddenly had this whole other operating system providing an it-just-works network connection, for free. It was amazing. So I used that adapter for several more years until I could afford a network upgrade. And I’m still using Linux the majority of the time today.
I switched to arch using qtile wm a few months ago. Couldn’t be happier. If a game doesn’t run on my rig either though stream or lutris well I just don’t play it, there’s way more games to discover and play.
I have the opposite experience. For 15 years I’ve been installing windows on laptops and desktops. Never did I had to ‘solve’ driver issues. They were either easy to find, by clicking ‘search in windows update’ or were supported directly through windows itself. No need to solve anything…
The opposite was true for my few Linux (Ubuntu and Linux mint) adventures. Every time something would just not work. The most frustrating for me was the broken sleep function. There was no way to get my laptop to sleep properly. It would wake up at random times or just not boot anymore thereafter.
Just saying that these kind of things really depend on what you work with and what you want to get out of a system
This! I literally give Windows a chance every version. I even kind of liked Windows 11 this go around.
But something always breaks and no matter how much I trouble shoot the fix is to reinstall windows. To which I say screw that and start distro hoping.
11 with 2022 gaming laptop just stopped updating. The only non native app I had on the thing was STEAM! I have been using Linux for 18 years because it’s the only way I know how to fix Windows.
It’s just when you have peripherals, you might just not find a driver for Linux at all
I remember having some issues with Ubuntu 10 because I had a janky pentium 4 built out of scrap. I think it was an pci ide card I had issues with.
Fuck Goodix
Sorry, I feel like I’m going to regret asking but… what?
Goodix is the manufacturer of some popular FP readers (at least it’s the one I have on my 2021 XPS).
And it’s known to not support Linux at all.
So for me it’s just a useless button sitting there doing nothing.
I have to use Windows and their extended malsoftware and I was checking if I could run some stuff necessary for my work on Linux but didn’t find info. I’m so tired of how low quality and buggy Microsoft stuff is.
And you aren’t tired of being unable to find comparable software on Linux?
It may exist. I work as QA for games ported to consoles. All info is hidden behind NDA accounts so I cannot access it easily.
I’ll take Linux hardware support over Microsoft any day of the week.
I’m really undecided on this. It really depends on the type of hardware, for example when dealing with graphics card drivers, especially nvidia I’ll take windows over linux any day. On the other hand on Linux I don’t have to install drivers for almost anything and things mostly just work unless the device is brand new.
I’ve been using all of the major OSs and they’re all good and they all suck in their own way. Windows does suck a bit more than the others, but I don’t think it’s as terrible as diehard Linux fanboys make it out to be.
I still use Windows on my home PC because bideo gaems and music production. I’d prefer to use Linux instead but oh well it’s not the worst thing.
Gaming on Linux has gotten to the point that if it won’t play on linux, I just shrug and play something else. Their are more native games, and games that aren’t native usually run under Proton, Proton GE, or Wine. There’s not much left that won’t play.
The Nvidia thing is less of a problem these days with distros like Nobara, Gardua, and Vanilla installing proprietary Nvidia drivers out of the box. Heck, you can even do it with almost 0 extra effort on plain Fedora.
I can’t help you with music production, though. Linux has some good stuff for that, but my understanding is that Mac and Windows are still the best choice.
Anyway, like I said to someone else, everyone’s different, and everyone’s threshold for horse hockey gets set off by different things. It’s all perspective, really.
Unless you care about privacy. That one’s more empirical than perceptual.
