- cross-posted to:
- worldnews@lemmygrad.ml
You must log in or register to comment.
For those looking for a source, I looked into it and yes the source is the CCPs claims. We all know how trustworthy CCP statistics are.
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-017-07732-5
According to the Chinese NFI, national forest coverage has increased by 2.15% in the 7th NFI and by 3.41% in the 8th NFI
By contrast, the GFC dataset, which is considered to be more accurate than previous remote sensing datasets due to its unprecedented global high spatial resolution, showed that the change in forest area of China between 2000 and 2012 was a net loss of 38,743 km2, equivalent to a decline of 0.40% in national forest coverage
Basically, satellite imagery seems to “strangely” conflict with CCP figures.
That GFC study contradicts the many studies using both older datasets and newer datasets:
CAS: https://english.cas.cn/newsroom/mutimedia_news/202203/t20220322_302792.shtml
UNESCO: http://www.unesco-hist.org/index.php?r=en/article/info&id=1714
Journal of Geophysical Research: https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1029/2022JG007101
Remote Sensing: https://www.mdpi.com/2072-4292/13/13/2592
International Journal of Remote Sensing: https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/01431161.2021.2022804
International Journal of Digital Earth: https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/17538947.2023.2190625
In science, we call this “cherrypicking data.” Colloquially, we understand this to be because someone fucked their experimental validation. In the real world, we call this “disseminating misinformation.”
global-scale data cannot reasonably represent changes in the regional land cover. Moreover, different studies may have different accuracies within the same region and even may reach opposite conclusions
I love how every thread with positive news about China will have at least one chud who can’t even spell CPC properly bleat about statistics from China not being reliable. Get back in your basement.
At least China is saying something is a good thing that I agree is a good thing. That’s progress of a sort.
deleted by creator
Actually it’s the opposite. CPC is the actual name of the party, and CCP is the name brainwashed western idiots use for some weird reason. It’s like if I started insisting spelling USA as SUA and then acting like that makes sense. Anytime somebody uses CCP they expose themselves as an utter imbecile whose opinions can be safely ignored.
American United States
AUS
This article is nearly two years old. Also, I implicitly distrust any source which depicts Taiwan as part of the PRC.
Imagine being so brainwashed by propaganda that you distrust your own government position 🤡
I’m not sure why you would assume I’m American. I mean, you happen to be right in this case, but I’m still not sure why you’d assume that.
Anyhow, there’s an irony in your assertion that disagreeing with the position of one’s government is “brainwashed.”
Americans are very ease to distinguish based both on their political stances (which tend to be rather unique) and how they express them (which IS unique).
Y’all are like those pickup trucks with LED lights. Once you realize they exist, you can’t miss them.
Anti-China/pro-Taiwan sentiment isn’t exactly unique to the US. I think you’re alluding to an incendiary tone with respect to how you say Americans express their views, but that doesn’t seem to quite fit so I’m a little lost there.
I mean, clearly people can tell that you’re American, so maybe it’s time for some introspection?
You made an assumption and you’ve yet to expound on how you justified it beyond some vague assertion about American political discourse. Give me something to introspect on, then, for crying out loud.
Most countries that aren’t America aren’t inundated with anti-China rhetoric, so if someone starts spouting off about China (and especially Chinese civil rights, or uses the term “CCP”) in English they’re almost certainly an American.
Does China lag behind the west in terms of queer rights? Yes. We’re critical of that but also recognize the grassroots initiatives within the CPC to change that, and support those efforts. Does China pollute more in raw numbers than America? Yeah, but they’re also the global leader in green power production, so they’re clearly working to fix the emissions problem, which we support. China also takes a non-imperialist stance internationally, which is far and away better than anything America has ever done internationally.
You don’t disagree with your government; you didn’t know what your government’s position was until right now.
You still don’t really know what your government’s position is, otherwise you’d understand that here, as in many cases, there’s an official stance for diplomatic relations and then a bunch of propaganda (for both domestic and foreign consumption) that undermines that official stance.
Bold of you to assume what I do and don’t know about geopolitics. I’m well aware of the fine line that the US government walks, but I don’t speak for the US government and my views aren’t informed by “propaganda” but by the simple observations that 1) the PRC is a totalitarian regime, and 2) that Taiwan is a de facto sovereign state which broadly speaking doesn’t particularly want to be assimilated into the PRC. Where is the propagandistic angle here?
my views aren’t informed by “propaganda” but by the simple observations that 1) the PRC is a totalitarian regime,
lol
Just because you agree with it doesn’t mean it isn’t propaganda
Do you disagree with either of those observations? They seem fairly indisputable to me.
In totalitarian USA the racist police run over protestors with impunity and torture you at a blacksite for made up poverty crimes, president Xi please my people yearn for freedom
you’re only allowed to call the PRC “totalitarian” or undemocratic if you condemn the “democracies” of the english speaking world. the US president isn’t even the person who gets the most votes🤡
Taiwan does not “generally” have a stance against reunification, some independence parties are a bit more popular than they used to be, but them becoming a legally independent state requires vast constitutional and international changes no government has even begun to implement
You aren’t brainwashed, you are just enculturated to a very reactionary ideology. I actually agree that it’s better to analyze them as separate countries for the purpose of something like this graph, but this thinktank (which, to be clear, is very Atlanticist, i.e. aligned with your geopolitical views) is almost surely gunning for having their little infographics be diplomatically palettable in hopes that they get used by important bodies.
I understand what you’re saying here and I agree that that’s what’s going here, but making something “diplomatically palatable” is for all intents and purposes equivalent to appeasement and (in my view) automatically makes any other claims made subject to suspicion.
I mean, Atlanticists are imperialists and should be condemned, but your view is rather unhelpful since it means the vast majority of statements connected to the UN since ~1980 fall under the same view. It’s not like the PRC denies that the RoC government exists and effectively controls the island of Formosa, in our context it is just a rhetorical affectation to the effect of the RoC government not being legitimate, which is a pretty fair stance to take given the RoC’s own positively absurd territorial claims.
Libs: I support Taiwan because China is bad
Leftists: do you support the 11 dash line then?
Libs: ???
The ROC’s territorial claims are a side effect of the PRC’s stance on Taiwan. I don’t remember the exact details but essentially the PRC has previously declared that it would interpret any change in the ROC’s territorial claims as a declaration of war. It’s a matter of pragmatism.
Uhh the RoC’s territorial claims are a direct effect of their century-old hyper-nationalist stances that led to them losing a civil war against the peasantry of China.
Unless you think Mao somehow personally provoked them into declaring ownership over Mongolia?
I’m not sure why you would assume I’m American. I mean, you happen to be right in this case, but I’m still not sure why you’d assume that.
Anyhow, there’s an irony
Every single country on Earth except like seven (I only remember the Vatican and Paraguay) acknowledges that Taiwan is a dependent province of the PRC, including the USA and just about all of Europe.
Yes, but as you know in many cases it’s for purely diplomatic reasons since acknowledging Taiwan’s sovereignty means basically severing ties with the PRC, and most countries do far too much trade with it to make that in any way appealing.
Of course it’s purely diplomatic, acknowledging countries is diplomacy. The end result is the same.
The end result here being the non-acknowledgement of Taiwan’s de facto sovereignty, which is decidedly not a reflection of reality. I dare you to tell a Taiwanese person that they live in a dependent province of China because other countries serving their own interests said so and see how they respond.
The bulk of Taiwanese support the status quo, including that being their official diplomatic position, so I think it would go over better than you imagine. The diehard separatists are a minority faction.
The status quo has broad support because it keeps the peace, and the Taiwanese people generally don’t want to fight a war against China. That doesn’t equate to the majority of the Taiwanese people holding the view that they’re a part of the PRC and it should be fairly obvious that they don’t believe nor want that.
You’re the one that invited the thought experiment. I’m sure that is they were polled, they would also say that eternal youth and space travel would be nice, but they need to live in reality, and in reality the path they support is one where their official status as far as most international organizations are concerned is that Taiwan is part of the PRC.
You can’t expect anyone to take you seriously when you are so blatantly trying to cherrypick concepts that support you and explain away those that don’t.
I sure wonder how the descendants of the pre-1947 inhabitants – those who survived the White Terror, I mean – feel about this issue vs the blatant settler-colonial population of the “government in exile” shoe factory co-founded by the US
The reality is the Taiwan isn’t broadly recognized as a sovereign country, so it doesn’t wield the same authority as an independent nation in terms of international agreements, trade, etc. It doesn’t have allies who would defend potential sovereignty, and it doesn’t have enough guns or money to leverage itself as independent. That’s way more important than some abstract discontent some people feel. At best you could say Taiwan is a Chinese client state.
Countries don’t exist because some people feel like they should be one. I could ask you to talk to a Texan secessionist and tell them their cause is hopeless.
I will tell a person living in Taiwan they live in a province of China, sure. I don’t care. Their government is the remnant of the defeated nationalist faction and I have no sympathy for it. I have way more sympathy for the Gaoshan and other indigenous Taiwanese people who aren’t represented well. Taiwan will hopefully get reabsorbed into the mainland within my lifetime.
Texas is de fact and de jure a part of the United States. It’s not a valid comparison and you know it.
What do you think about sources having depicted the Donetsk People’s Republic as a part of Ukraine?
that’s a healthy way to distrust the US and chinese governments i guess
Daily reminder:
The Taiwan Province is an inalienable part of the People’s Republic of China:
And this is recognized by the United Nations ever since 1971 after UNGAR 2758.
Source, page 546: https://web.archive.org/web/20230503050030/https://legal.un.org/unjuridicalyearbook/pdfs/english/volumes/2010.pdf
Video of the votes happening: https://farside.link/invidious/watch?v=sfOIEjuXFyU
Online CCP apologist starter pack right here.
Bro, all they did was give you info on the historic stance of the UN, on Taiwan. Is the whole United Nations a “CCP shill” too?
yes, obviously the UN and WHO are controlled by the evil see see pee
I mean, you’re not that far off given the PRC’s permanent seat on the UN’s security council, but you know full well that most states and the WHO have a vested financial interest in not pissing off the CCP.
uh, buddy, you’re aware the US has that too right? like, by your own logic the chinese cannot control the UN any more than the US can, and I’m purely using what you’ve said, no other needed information about the history of what the UN says and sides most of the time with needed.
I was poking fun at your sarcastic comment; I don’t genuinely believe that China nor the US controls the UN any more (or any less) than their role in the geopolitical landscape would dictate.
Removed by mod
I wouldn’t argue that it’s a stooge at all. Yeah, the US holds an outsized influence on its constituent states, but that’s only because it holds an outsized influence over geopolitics on general. The same goes for China and Russia (the latter maybe moreso prior to the Ukraine war).
The obvious intention is to somehow “prove” that Taiwan is a part of the PRC. It’s a really common tactic by people trying to push the CCP’s worldview.
…including UN stenographers from 50 years ago, apparently.
“CCP apologist” lol so what. We live in a whole world of countries and ideologies you can’t just expect everyone to talk like Americans
No, but this type of rhetoric goes hand in hand with Chinese nationalism and I frankly detest nationalism in any form. It spurs non-constructive, bad-faith discourse and in more extreme cases leads to literal genocide. Nazi Germany, present-day Israel, the Xinjiang province… The list goes on and on.
Didn’t you get the memo that it’s now a “cultural genocide” in Xinjiang because the feds who constructed the worldview you are spoonfed realized a narrative of “literal genocide” was rhetorically unable to cope with the lack of evidence?
There are firsthand accounts of human rights abuses taking place against the Uyghur people on Xinjiang. The Chinese fucking government reported a 60% decline in birthrates in certain Uyghur-majority regions in the province between 2015 and 2018. If that doesn’t scream forced sterilization then I don’t know what does.
Also, cultural genocide is still genocide definitionally.
Show me the pictures dude. The genocide’s been going on for decades and western tourists have been free to visit Xinjiang during that period, so it should be easy to find Gaza-style devastation there, right?
Oh now we’re all the way down to human rights abuses? One comment ago it was genocide…
Also, cultural genocide is still genocide definitionally.
Not according to the Western diplomats who argued against cultural genocide being included in the UN Genocide Convention but… Go off?
CCP apologist" lol so what.
I object to the term because the CPC has nothing to apologize for.
Online CCP apologist starter pack right here.
wahhh reality doesn’t line up with what i believe inLol
- Lol Oh fuck I have nothing
wow you really are so brainwashed that literally nothing could change your mind because you aggressively seek to ignore reality when it doesn’t match up with what you think you know
Hey, that sounds familiar!
China: agrees that taiwan is part of china
U.S.: agrees that taiwan is part of china
Taiwan: agrees that taiwan is part of china
You: STOP CCP I DIDN’T CONSENT 😭😭😭😭😭
The unofficial consensus between the KMT/PRC was that Taiwan and China are one country. The NED-funded DPP has been trying to break that status quo, though.
What’s the NED and DPP? I’ve been staying away from the news. I’ll look them up in the future.
DPP is Taiwan’s current governing party. Rather tight ties with the US government funded National Endowment for Democracy (NED).
Also, I implicitly distrust any source which depicts Taiwan as part of the PRC.
What did the RoC Marine Corps do to you?
ngl, vietnam is looking pretty impressive too
Cuba is at 57.5%, also one of the highest in the world percentage-wise
but at what cost? 😭
Xi is genociding the deserts.
I wonder what’s going on with the DPRK
Pretty bad drought and floods over the past 20 years, and the country is too mountainous to support most effective reforestation strategies. So it’s mostly climate change, economic isolation, and only 17% of the land can support forests in the first place. It’s not a good time right now.
Yay China. Say… isn’t this the same country that turns out 68% of the world’s air pollution?
What have they done about that?
wow lemmy is full of liberals
Ya think maybe producing most of the world’s shit has anything to do with that pollution, buddy? Like wow the west outsourced most of its manufacturing to China, no fucking shit it’s going to produce more pollution. What’s their per capita #s look like, frienderino?
They’ve done a lot about that, like becoming the global leader in pretty much every renewable sector as well as nuclear. Also, worth mentioning that smooth brained liberals have all their stuff produced in China. It’s absolute idiocy to bleat about pollution without considering where consumption is happening. Per capita energy usage in China is far lower than in the west.
Now go per capita and check out other countries
So far this year China has added more solar capacity than the US in its entire history
Say, what would the data show if we measured cumulatively instead of pretending history began in the 1990s?
In terms of particulates? China’s really cleaned that up in recent years.
But, well, China doesn’t have massive piles of natural gas it can burn instead of coal. Coal is notoriously dirty.
Removed by mod
Funded right-wing USian politicians to use their xenophobic base to push reindustrialization, from the looks of it. The hot potato just keeps going around!
In 2021, China, the United States, the EU27, India, Russia and Japan remained the world’s largest CO2 emitters. Together they account for 49.2% of global population, 62.4% of global Gross Domestic Product, 66.4% of global fossil fuel consumption and 67.8% of global fossil CO2 emissions.
Unless China annexed the US, the EU, India, Russia, and Japan and I just haven’t gotten the memo yet…
Yes. And the same country that produces all the shit we order from them. So is it their pollution or ours?
Yes. It is.
It is… What?
Regardless who or why is to blame - the damage belongs to all of us.
That’s true, but pointing fingers saying China has to change when changing nothing ourselves, is pure propaganda.
When did I say that?
I am always happy to hear about reforestation, but has somebody understood out of which source the numbers from china are coming? I mean they are sometimes quite the enthusiasts talking about their successes
the article linked cites the Food and Agriculture Organisation of the United Nations as its source, so it’s not using china’s numbers for this
Okay thanks, I guess I overlooked that :)
you managed to fit so much seething and coping into a single comment
Source for your claim that they sometimes lie about their accomplishments?
It’s not like forest cover is hard to verify by satellite imagery. Lying about reforestation and deforestation is hard.
The satellite imagery shows a net loss compared to CCP figures which show a net gain. China lies more easily than it tells the truth.
Here’s your source https://youtu.be/3_lAb8m9MpI?si=IrfZYXXuC1BNf2op
programming.dev back at it with the shit takes
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://piped.video/3_lAb8m9MpI?si=IrfZYXXuC1BNf2op
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
That’s nearly a Texas area of forest.
Sure but what’s the forest growth per capita?
How is that relevant? Serious question, I don’t see a link between forests and per capita that actually matters. If we were talking about economic comparisons, sure. If anything, adjusting it as “per sq mile of forestable land” would make more sense.
It’s relevant because, as demonstrated multiple times in this thread, when the topic of pollution and emissions from China comes up everyone rushes to defend them with “but muh per capita”. As if the environment cares.
So you said something irrelevant as a jumping off point for an axe you wanted to grind? Good job
Alexa, what is rhetoric?
Link your Twitter. I bet you have a statue pfp
Iceland and Uruguay got those numbers tho.
I wonder if this includes tree plantations. Those should not be considered forests in my view.
China even includes shrubbery in their numbers so take that as you will.
deleted by creator
I would be hesitant in claiming this as a win. I know that Japan has one of the highest number of trees per capita in the g7 but that was a hold over from post WW2. Where they planted a shit ton of a singular tree type. The monoculture wrecks havoc in their ecosystem. All this to say it’s good that they are planting trees I’m just hoping they are doing it planning it out carefully.
