How about: No arms deals with any entity that indiscriminately murders innocent people, women, and children?
Nice no more police funding
Yay!
Just yesterday Biden pulled $334M out of his arse for more police funding! https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/other/biden-administration-announces-334m-to-hire-police-officers-improve-security-at-schools/ar-AA1jhl2b
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No more government benefits for people that have abortions either.
Think of all the savings
So practically every major power in the world?
yes
Shit no deals with Boeing, Northrup Grumman, etc.
Oh well, I’m certain they won’t bribe Congress to force their deals through… /s
What? Think about the BlackRock’s and Vanguard’s!
I can’t believe how many shitlibs there are in here, using this opportunity to guilt people with an actual conscience into voting for this piece of shit as if he has some sort of moral high ground.
Which is the lesser evil when both the DNC and the GOP work directly for the exact same military industrial complex?
The one that isn’t taking away trans rights, making abortion illegal, and saying the last election was stolen, seems like the lesser evil actually. I can agree that I think our parties would be slightly better if first past the post was changed to allow for multiple parties, but i think it’s ridiculous to say both parties are currently the same. Edit: As I responded to thecrotch, I disagree with the assertion that the Dem party is evil. Flawed? sure, our 2 party system will only allow for flawed parties, but to say their evil is downright showing ignorance of US politics or disinformation given the examples that I gave.
They don’t have to be the same to both suck. The lesser evil is, by definition, evil.
You’re right, what I should have also added to my post was that, I disagree with the assertion that the Dem party is evil. Flawed? sure, our 2 party system will only allow for flawed parties, but to say their evil is downright showing ignorance or disinformation for the examples that I gave.
Democrats voted for Afghanistan, Iraq, the Patriot act, and countless other evil legislation. They’re absolutely evil. So they’re less evil than the Republicans, so what? Should I give them a cookie?
No, but you should still vote for them. What else can you do? Vote independent? Change the world?
My state is reliably going to be won by the same party no matter what I do, and that party is going to get 100% of our electoral votes no matter what I do. So I vote third party, because if they can get 20% of the popular vote they get to be in the debates next time around. Living in a locked down state, it’s the only way my vote can possibly have a chance of making any difference.
You’re like 20 years behind, catch up. Give them a cookie? Give them your vote. The alternative is republicans who RIGHT NOW, IN THIS YEAR are attempting to restrict abortions, deny the elections, restrict lgbt+ rights. Democrats are fighting against that. But yeah you’re right maybe split you’re vote because both sides “are the same”.
I didn’t say they’re the same. They don’t have to be the same to both suck. Fuck you for telling me how to vote. You got a lot of nerve.
But less evil.
Also by definition.
Who the fuck wants more evil?
Fine, vote your conscience. I was replying to a guy who said Democrats aren’t evil. That guy is wrong. Less evil doesn’t mean not evil.
And your argument is that someone already called them evil.
My argument is that they are evil. I made that argument to someone who said that they are not evil. Do you have a point?
Restating the conclusion is not what constitutes an argument.
Not to people overseas. There’s no difference between being indiscriminately murdered by a Republican or a Democrat to the people dying.
Democrats aren’t getting people killed, Republicans are by not allowing women to get medically necessary abortions. To people over seas, seeinh one group deny the existence of covid, make abortions illegal, and passing laws restricting lgbt+ peoples rights is obviously the evil one.
I’m sure that the people in Syria who are being bombed and the people in Palestine who are being bombed by Israel using US dollars really care about our domestic politics as they watch their families get blown to shreds.
Democrats aren’t getting people killed
What do you think starting wars in the middle east does? Or do you not consider those people to be human.
No, we have Eisenhower Republicans, and Nazis.
I’ll grant you that.
This is nonsense. MAGA is a fascist movement. Don’t let both being neo-liberal blind you.
And yet the United States continues to slide into fascism despite having elected Biden. What horrific Trump era policies did the Democrats even bother to repeal after they won in 2020 and held both the senate and the house?
They are still funding the construction of border wall segments. They never repealed the Republican tax cuts. They have done nothing about the concentration camps on the southern border for fuck’s sake. They never codified Roe v. Wade, we literally lost the right to abortions while Biden was in office. They could have stacked the supreme court but they didn’t.
The Democrats and the Republicans form an obfuscated one party system in the US. Republican leadership aggressively ramps up the oppression of marginalized people, then Democratic leadership does nothing to restore our rights nor proactively prevent the same thing from happening again. Instead they just use their time in office to suck all of the energy out of people’s movements that could actually effect change.
And much more importantly than all of that, Republicans and Democrats are virtually identically evil when it comes to foreign policy. When the US is dropping bombs on you and destroying your country, you’ll tend not to care whether it was a Red MAGA or Blue MAGA administration pulling the trigger.
In some specific cases it might be worthwhile to vote for Democrats in local elections where there exists much more leeway for politicians to stray from the party line, but voting for them in national elections is just lending your voice to legitimizing their bullshit good cop/bad cop routine they play with the Republicans.
Hear hear!!! My sentiments exactly! Thanks for putting it into words better than I could have.
Yes, that is a feature of democratic systems. Parties want to get voted in. So they bend their programs to achieve that goal. I live in Germany and here all parties are leaning further and further to the right, since the AfD (nationalist-conservative, some party members Neo-nazi) party is gaining in almost every poll.
If all that was at play here was mere democracy, we’d have an M4A candidate. The population is solidly to the left of either party on the majority of issues, but they get no voice because liberal democracy is an exercise in choosing between the options that capitalists have picked for you.
Your bubble is.
This is much less snappy than it is grammatically ambiguous.
Let me rephrase: “Your echochamber is”
Fascism is a far-right, authoritarian, ultranationalist political ideology and movement, characterized by a dictatorial leader, centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, belief in a natural social hierarchy, subordination of individual interests for the perceived good of the nation or race, and strong regimentation of society and the economy.
To me, it sounds a whole lot like both Biden AND Trump can be considered fascists….especially with this idea of secret military aid to Israel that I’m reacting to here.
Looking at it from an economic definition perspective though Biden represents the financial bourgeoisie and Trump represents more industrial bourgeoisie
I’d actually argue that Trump comes from the real estate bourgeoisie but I agree on the Biden characterization. Biden never saw an MBNA donor contribution that he didn’t love (like in 2008 when he sold all future generations out for a $250,000 payout from MBNA).
I just don’t see how real estate wealth translates to industry. In general, many of Trump’s areas don’t fully align with the Republican establishment who, in my observation, generally are from real estate, energy, and industry as you mentioned.
Thinking about it more, it seems like real estate has a lot of overlap in both parties.
Trump obviously comes from real estate, but his current money-making on a direct level is decidedly media-driven. The question is who gives him money and who benefits from his policy, and I think the answer is that he has a relatively larger amount of support from the petite bourgeois.
High fixed capital
Both are fascist, the only difference is where the fascism is pointed. That’s why you’ll see a lot of fake leftists support Biden, because they don’t care about the world all they care about are themselves.
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Your definition of fascism is hilariously wrong
Neoliberalism is exactly the economic policies of fascism. Just because they have “civility” aesthetics doesn’t change that
i can’t see any of them, which means a lot of them must have been banned already from hexbear lol lmao
8 out of a total of 165 comments remain.
Went and checked the lemmy.ml version of the thread, and they sure weren’t lying about the shitlibs.
Glory to the moderators
Maybe I should switch to hexbear. I feel like I’m on 2016 Twitter, arguing with Neera Tanden’s astroturfing PPI team and they’re trying to brainwash other leftists to think that Single Payer is somehow bad.
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I can’t believe calling other Lemmy users “shitlibs” doesn’t violate collegiality rules on Lemmy.
It should.
So called “Free speech” liberals when someone is mean to them.
I’m all for free political speech. But fuck your definition. Spewing hate and vitriol like it’s some speech virtue. We all left Reddit because it leads to horrors in the name of free speech. All while claiming the opposite is Virtue Signaling.
Calling out libshit isn’t spewing hate and vitriol, thin-shinned cracker.
You want to disagree on a point? Be my guest. You want to call those who disagree with you “libshits”? Then piss off back to Reddit, where hate is the embodiment of the virtueless you seek.
The Fediverse isn’t the kind of “free speech zone” you think it is. And never was. It was created exactly to oppose that.
I’ll give you a month before you’re back to normal. Everyone takes time to detox from that shitty website.
I’ve been on Mastodon since 2017.
You are the very thing you claim to oppose.
Oh no! I mean poopoo libs for those that can’t handle a little reality on neoliberalism. Ps. I’m not name calling. I’m making a point. BrooklynDad and Charlotte Clymer are examples of DNC shitlib’s from Twitter that did the exact same two party guilt trip.
Your behavior here brings to Lemmy the worst toxicity from Reddit. Hold your head in shame.
Your neoliberalism brings to Lemmy the worst toxicity from Twitter. Hold your head in shame.
I had missed being gaslighted by mature adults that also just so happened to be on the Progressive Poly Institute’s astroturfing payroll about being a horrible piece of shit if I didn’t hold my nose and vote for the lesser of two evils that screw their constituents in exactly the same way as the “bad guys” but do it with a smile. Go tell David Brock to transfer you to a new department.
You have no idea what my political views are. That’s presumptuous on your part.
You look for reasons to promote hate on the fediverse, which exists to oppose just that.
Did you forget that I can see your comment history? I’m going to do the right thing and block you once you read this. Please try to keep in mind that you are a supposed leftist who likes to shame other leftists who aren’t willing to compromise like you are. If you consider me toxic for pointing that out, maybe go touch some grass and sign off for a while.
You are telling me what I’m supposed to be?
Please, do block me. I want nothing to do with your anger and hate.
You can instantly spot the pro-fascist pro-Russia tankies by this single word. And the comments just ooze peak toxicity while trying to act like some moral authority. They literally can’t help themselves but call names because I’m pretty sure 99% of them are actually children
I’m a tankie!!?!?!?!?!?!?!?
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
If you care about nuance, I’m a libertarian socialist/anarcho syndicalist (Chomsky-ite) who thinks that democratic socialism MIGHT POSSIBLY lead to a more just society than the corruption extravaganza that we have…
Nuance nonces on their way to defend nazi war criminals.
Sorry, it’s the rules. I have to post that everyone someone uses that word.
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If they’re both equally evil internationally and mostly equally evil domestically, am I allowed to vote for who is less likely to remove more human rights from women and trans people?
I would never tell anyone that they should vote, I understand people’s reasons for not doing it. Selfishly, I’m going to give myself the best chance of having access to life saving health care until I’m no longer of child bearing age.
In terms of federal representatives, that’s rather like a poor white German supporting the Strassers.
If Hitler had actually held an election and the only options were him or a Strasser party, I don’t think it would be immoral to vote for the Strassers. But I also don’t think it would be a moral obligation if you had no reason to believe they would stop the Holocaust.
A vote for Hindenburg was indeed a vote for Hitler, so I think the moral is that caping for a lesser evil instead of trying to build good (and those two things are normally opposed) is not a constructive behavior. I couldn’t give less of a shit who you personally vote for, that’s the consumer-lifestyle version of political engagement. I do care somewhat what you advocate for, because promoting the lesser evil is still promoting evil over good (using the overly moralistic phrasing of the adage).
Withholding support from Nazis (on any substantial level) is plainly the better option if you want to not need to keep choosing between two Nazis.
A vote for Hindenburg was indeed a vote for Hitler
How so? Hindenburg was Hitler’s biggest political adversary and refused to pronounce Hitler chancellor until 2 consecutive elections failed.
The 1932 election had a communist option, it’s unlikely that there will be one on my ballot.
We’re not going to overthrow fascism in America at the voting booth. I’m not trying to convince anyone to vote for Biden, that’s his job and he’s not doing it very well. I’m also not going to shame anyone for doing something easy like voting in the hopes that it makes them a tiny bit safer.
I would shame someone if they thought that voting democrat is a step towards bringing about positive change or parroted some bullshit about how we can get more concessions from Democrats than Republicans. If voting is the extent of your political engagement, you aren’t opposing fascism.
Of course! I’m just standing up to speak my mind. We all are allowed to vote exactly as we see fit. I live in MA where I have the opportunity to vote with my conscience, but in a place like AL, SC, or KY, my strategy wouldn’t be helpful to those groups of people.
The two party system makes democracy in the US an absolute sham.
My thing is, why are some people here just finally throwing away their votes?
Like I knew from a very young age that this country doesn’t care and will enthusiastically turn it’s back on you if your hardship is an inconvenience to capital in any way, look how they treat the ndns.
And if anything there is money to be made off our suffering.
This is why colonization anywhere is colonization everywhere. From the river to the fucking sea, Palestine WILL BE FREE
What is the lesser evil when both the DNC and the GOP work directly for the exact same military industrial complex?
If you can have that plus corrupt democracy in America or that plus outright fascism in America, I’m not seeing how the choice is difficult.
It’s a bipolar world buddy and your mind and body is sport for the hunters lol
Fuck Israel. We shouldn’t be supporting them at all.
They would fold under even the littlest bit of BDS, but that’s not going to happen because the US sees themselves in Israel.
Thus why nearly every state has made it illegal for any company that works with the government to be BDS-positive.
I’m not voting for this man a second time. No more harm reduction. I’m not degrading myself by voting for a genocide enabler.
Wee! We get full harm because you only want perfection at all times with no effort at all! Woohoo!
My effort is contributing to my community and the less fortunate. You think me bubbling in a check mark for someone who is giving the thumbs up for an ethnic cleansing and genocide is putting in work? Go outside.
I really hope your 2016 vote went to an independent, then. I’m having a hard time seeing how Trump would ever do either of those things. Granted, he might thumbs-up an ethnic cleansing if it meant remaining in power.
I voted for Clinton and Biden. I’m done voting.
So fucking stupid and short-sighted.
👍
“Things aren’t going how I like when I vote, so now i will encourage everyone to not vote to improve the chances that things will change the way I want them to”
I shared my opinion on a public forum.
I let perfect be the enemy of good.
I’m doing my part, for the Republicans!
People are always ready with some morality test but the cold hard truth is trying to enforce your absolutes on others is not going to work out. It just backs you into a corner supporting a turd sandwich. Compromises suck though. Can’t have that. You do you.
Go back to Reddit if you want pats on the back for not voting or voting for someone that wants to strip human rights.
I’ve always found it strange how people gatekeep internet culture. Especially when it’s meaningless in the face of a genocide. I don’t care about this perfect utopia you expected the fediverse to be. I will be firmly against genocide and will say it wherever I see fit.
It’s more that you talk like nobody else is against genocide. Nobody here wants genocide. Your “solution” is just a nothing burger. The reality is every government is pretty fucked up, some more than others. There’s no way to change the whole world order, so you try make it as less shit for as many people as possible, not just throw your hands up and say “I’m done with voting”.
Dear young people, “Don’t Vote” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0e9guhV35o
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://www.piped.video/watch?v=t0e9guhV35o
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
You getting downvoted for refusing to vote for Biden for a very valid reason is proof of how broken our two-party system is. This is why every state needs to pass ranked-choice voting. Maine did it and proved it could be done, and now they get to vote for who they actually /want/ without having their vote “spoiled”.
Everyone in the US should be working to get ranked-choice voting in their state.
Whoever you vote for will support Israel. US ally and all.
Then I simply will not vote.
Throwing trans, gays, women, poor people, minorities etc. under the bus because Biden who has called for a ceasefire in Gaza isn’t doing enough.
Not voting because the democrat isn’t left enough for you is an extremely privileged outlook to have.
Biden has not called for a ceasefire. He has called for a humanitarian pause until they can get hostages and foreign nationals out, so they can resume bombing. I’ll continue using my vote as my voice. You are free to do whatever you want.
Wait, that’s literally a cease fire though? He’s not calling for a peace agreement or truce. He’s calling for a temporary cessation of hostilities.
This exact attitude is how we got where we are. Don’t vote for policies you don’t believe in. There are other candidates, win or lose, vote for one that represents you.
This isn’t how we got here. The people that don’t vote tend to be left leaning. Republicans do vote, in mass. I fail to see how thinking not voting/voting third party is how we got here.
That’ll show 'em.
Dear young people, “Don’t Vote” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0e9guhV35o
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://www.piped.video/watch?v=t0e9guhV35o
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
And then nobody becomes president.
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Do whatever you want. You’re a person behind a screen as am I. You aren’t going to change my mind on this. I’ve heard it for the past 8 years with Clinton then Biden. I cannot vote for people who support a modern day holocaust
Then you’re voting for the party that wants to commit one at home as well. Hope it’s worth it.
Man quit it with the “if you don’t vote for the guy I want you’re actually voting for the other guy”. I’m not voting for anyone. You want to secure my vote? Earn it. Don’t just be slightly less monstrous than the other guy
Who do you vote? The murderer or the rapist?
Neither. You don’t vote for either. That is the answer.
Then you spend 4 years roasting the imbeciles who installed the murderer/rapist as their leader.
There’s that self righteous nonsense I mentioned above. Not voting =/= no culpability for the results.
Who is more self righteous?
The man who refuses to vote for the one aggressively funding genocide or the one who martyrs the world on the guy who is aggressively funding genocide because he is “the lesser evil.”
That’s right, All Israeli citizens are culpable for the bombing Gazan civilians. Therefore they are all valid targets to stop genocide.
You actually don’t vote for the president. Our vote is merely a suggestion. So vote freely and with confidence. Which criminal is your preferred president?
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I told you my beliefs and I own it. You told me yours and you own it. Is this supposed to be some next level analysis, that I disagree with you? That’s usually how conversations work.
Good talk then. Have a nice weekend.
Why stop at here? They also want to let Russia destroy Ukraine. Both parties are going to support a genocide. Hell isn’t Republican supporting both?
Nah man Russia is kind of old news, arguably there was a build up from years ago, and yeah feelings change over time, but if you ask me, nobody really needs to suffer…
vote for one genocides or two. wonderful.
Just leave the president box blank then. Or find an independent who aligns with your values. Make your voice heard.
I don’t disagree. Will continue to vote locally, even nationally if the candidates align with my values and will keep voting for third parties. I just cannot justify a lesser evil to myself anymore.
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Trump hates Netanyahu. He’s a fascist, but even he could see that Israel had no intentions of ever peaceably resolving the conflict.
There is no world in which trump would side with Palestine over Israel. Not a chance in hell. This is beyond delusional.
Spoiler alert: This would have most likely happened regardless of the D or R next to the president’s name on the ballot.
There’s two reasons I could see the US supporting Israel regardless of who’s in charge: the logical one because it has historical precedent is that the US wants Israel as a buffer for Russia due to it’s strategic location in the Middle-East, and the other reason is more conspiracy theory but I wouldn’t be surprised if the US can somehow get access to Palestine’s oil if Israel beats the shit out of the Hamas.
Or third, Israel has invested a lot in American politics after Eisenhower used American economic power against Israeli allies in the Suez Crisis, seeing that it needed to be on good terms with at least one super power and the USA seemed like the more natural fit. This includes going as far as supporting any primary challenger that pledges Israeli support.
It was either that or go the way of its apartheid nuclear buddy, South Africa.
Palestine doesn’t have any oil. There’s some offshore deposits in the Mediterranean but Israel already has full access to those.
This is the dumbest take, unfortunately very common amongst otherwise compassionate people.
I will stay dumb and ignorant if it means sticking to my morals of being anti-genocide. Thanks.
You’re not any more anti-genocide than I am, you’re just being childish. You’re not getting your way so you’re going home. Meanwhile the right wingers are taking advantage of your childishness to enact more sadistic laws at home.
You’re literally choosing to be indifferent to the suffering of one set of groups because a politician didn’t protect your preferred set of oppressed peoples.
Not saying I am, but voting for someone who enables a genocide goes against my values. If by childish you mean choosing what I want to do with my vote, then sure.
Your logic equates to:
Biden is enabling genocide so I’m going to effectively throw my vote to his opponent, who not only will also enable genocide, but massively expand it.
Don’t vote FOR Biden, vote AGAINST Trump/Republicans because while both Democrats and Republicans are awful, Republicans are actively sadistic.
Great, I’m telling you that it goes against my morals. You can effectively vote for whoever you want and I can effectively not vote for either. Are you going to tell me voting third party is a vote for Trump too?
I’d guess you have already have denied such a basic fact.
Yay harm increases! Apathy means innocence.
You dropped this /s
I am. With gusto.
That is your decision and I have nothing against it.
Fair enough.
How is Biden a warmonger?
Did you forget his term as VP?
We live in a democracy
And other lies we tell ourselves.
Example: we don’t vote for the president or the people who actually elect him. Yet, we are bombarded with ads about which to pick! Why?
- George Costanza
This is taxation without representation
Genocide Joe feeling the heat in the polls.
Genocidin’ Biden.
Well that’s not suspicious at all.
Which shows you America Is ran by foreign interests.
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Biden said something like: “If there was no Israel, we’d have to invent it.”
The US loves having a highly militarized, violent, totally amoral and 100% US-dependent proxy next to all those oil fields. The last thing the US wants is peace in the middle east. This is just divide-and-conquer 101.
Other way around. Israel is a us proxy state
I get why - congress is increasingly useless - but there’s obvious accountability problems there.
Accountability problems with funneling infinite weapons to an Apartheid settler state?
Yeah, it doesn’t seem like a sustainable precedent to set.
At this point, I can confidently say that Israel controls America.
Other way around, they’re basically a US satellite state if anything. Biden said it himself, “if there wasn’t an Israel we would have to invent one.”
Here’s a graph showing the countries that voted most closely in line with the US in the UN across the past couple decades:
The three dots behind Israel are former US Pacific Island territories that are currently US puppet states and officially give away much of their sovereignty to America under COFA. If you exclude those three, Israel aligns itself with America miles ahead of any other country.
Nah fam. Miss me with that nonsense. Why would a tiny nation control the US? They have influence with American interests in many ways, but control it? It makes no sense. The only position that this would make sense from is the same antisemetic cabal bullshit. A small group controls the world alright. The wealthy, most of whom are white Christians. They control things, not Jews.
Not quite true. Israel gets a lot of support from the US government because it’s a useful ally.
It’s the vanguard in the coveted Middle Eastern region (lots of oil) that is incidentally hated by everyone around them so you can easily use their status to provoke proxy wars, then invade and claim plausible deniability by saying you just helped out your ally.
Spineless, pathetic cowardice. I mean we already knew that about Democrats but this just indicts the entire administration as such. Israel makes no apologies for their slaughter, they just don’t give a shit, but this means that Genocide Joe and Co. KNOW this is wrong and they’ll still bend over backwards just to kill a foreigner.
Zero attempts at “harm reduction” pfff, they’re actively taking steps to make the harm (literal bombing of children) worse. I live in a swing state, so when I throw my vote away I’ll get to feel proud knowing it was worth even more. Glory to the martyrs and may “Israel” and her American dog be annihilated.
Oh cool modern day Iran-Contra is gonna happen but with more genocide
I don’t like this trend! War movies in 10-20 years will be boring. No Rambos, no Schwarzeneggers, no Spielberg and Tom Hanks emotional patriotism! No funny casual racism, no casual homophobia, no casual misoginy… Did Mark Hamil play a terrorist in Star Trek after all? The End of an Era. We’re gonna have to watch films about how a bribed White House politicant struggles to keep up with weapon manufacture demands while managing to convince his wife not to divorce him because she feels neglected since he’s never at home… directed by Clint Eastwood.
That’s boring. I’m out!
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