- cross-posted to:
- memes@hexbear.net
- memes@lemmy.ml
- cross-posted to:
- memes@hexbear.net
- memes@lemmy.ml
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I hope to some day live somewhere that allows me to take a train to where I want to go mid to long distance and the ability to walk short distance to the rest.
Here’s the thing: I live in a mid sized city in Brazil. As in America, Brazil is very car centric (thanks, Kubitschek). But there’s no trains. The capital city of my state has a single urban train line, and I think it’s the only in the whole state, that’s as big as France.
Your options here are:
- use a car and endure the traffic;
- get a poor planned, crowded and falling apart bus, and endure the traffic, because they rarely have exclusive lanes;
- get a motorcycle, so you can split lanes and get through the traffic, but risking your life and not being able to carry more than one (adult) person and a handful of small items;
- or use a bicycle in this very hilly and mountainous place, with close to no infrastructure to make it less risky.
I chose to use a motorcycle (although I couldn’t afford one yet because we’re poor), but I understand that for anyone with a family, owning a car is not a choice, it’s a necessity (and it’s a very expensive one)
Time to make it a political movement then. Because the people who have any sort of power to make significant changes are politicians.
First we have to convince people here that this is a problem at all. Most people think that the solution to the traffic problem is more roads, more lanes, cheaper cars, and better buses.
The buses are bad? Just make them better. There are too many cars in the streets? Just make better streets
Buses are that bad usually because they are a monopoly or very close to it. The government chooses which company can do public transportation by rigged licitations, and no other company can do it. Then they have no reason at all to do a good job.
Most people seem to have given up on the idea of more train lines. No company can do it, only the government. Every politician promised it, but adding train lines to an existing city is very hard, so none do
Utter bullshit. It’s not about driving from a to be.
Have you ever brought your old and ill grandparent to a doctors appointment 20kms away when he can’t hold it anymore - via train/bus? Have you ever took your grandma to the grocery shop via train/bus? Have you ever get home as fast as possible because of a accident at home? Have you ever done anything outside of a big city?!
People who advocate for better public transportation usually also advocate for walkable neighborhoods. Your grandparents would not need a car to go to grocery, it’ll be at a walking distance. Same for doctors.
As for emergencies, yes, a car would be nice. But you can always get a can in that situation. No need to destroy the planet every other day.
Let me ask you this, have you ever done anything outside of a car only dystopia?
My god are you privileged. 2 towns 30km apart. Less than 10k population not trainstation, no doc, no hospital. Calling people words that just live and work for others is such a cunt move.
Are you willingly missing the point? Those town exist like this due to having a car centered society. Look at any other country where car isn’t the only means of transportation. Towns are closer together, with shared infrastructure so that such a situation does not arise in the first place. That’s what everyone’s advocating for. No one’s calling you a monster for using cars in a car dependent society. But realize that things can be better, and vote for change whenever possible.
And about the privileged thing, I literally grew up in rural India lol.
Edit: Also, who called you any word? Don’t play victim here.
In places designed before/not for cars you’d have places within walking distance like groceries. In the doctor scenario, we’ve had adult diapers for a long time. Your solution is you let them pee in your car?
I don’t know why you’d argue with someone that thinks driving to Walmart is the best humans have to offer.
someone that thinks driving to Walmart is the best humans have to offer.
That really does sum up the Stockholm syndrome some folks have for fucked up America’s zoning code, doesn’t it?
In the doctor scenario, we’ve had adult diapers for a long time. Your solution is you let them pee in your car?
And your solution is they shit themselves on public transportation?
I mean, I’m 100% for better public transportation and urban centers designed around walking, but let’s compare apples to apples here.
They didn’t make a straw man argument, they had a point. It’s a genuine issue and they deserve better than a flippant remark telling them to make grandpa wear diapers so he can piss himself on his walk from the bus stop.
And your solution is they shit themselves on public transportation?
Do you not understand how incontinence works? Someone who can’t hold their bowels or bladder wears diapers, full-stop. Sometimes this is due to an underlying issue that can be fixed, sometimes not. In either case the person has to wear adult diapers at least some of the time.
I don’t understand the point you’re trying to make. This person will be wearing diapers regardless of their transport. But you seem to disagree if they are being driven in a car. Therefore, would you allow an incontinent person to not wear diapers in your car, where they may have an accident?
My point is that the “piss in the car” comment was mean, thoughtless, and added nothing. If grandpa is incontinent, then he’ll wear diapers regardless of the car or the bus.
Your comment was either a.) implying that messing themselves in public was better than in relative privacy, or b.) if you use a car, grandpa doesn’t get to wear Depends.
Take your pick.
It might not be what you meant, but you were too busy being a jerk to notice that it’s what you said.
this is a weird instance, to be sure. I thought it was satire, but there’s a lot of people who seem to lack the ability to think critically about transportation in general.
your comment isn’t even irrational at all. but you’re being downvoted because you don’t ascribe to the theory that the world should be all butterflies and rainbows and everyone can just walk everywhere or take public transport.
public transportation can be great. but it can be so bad it’s basically unusable.
all stuff I read in here sounds like a bunch of kids preparing for debate team about whether cars are “good” or “evil”
anything outside of a big city?!
The photos OP is sharing are depicting 10 or more lanes. That’s precisely about a big city. Meanwhile the situation you describe, e.g doctor 20km away, no train/bus access, seems to be about not a big city. I believe you two are not talking about the same problem even though both are valid.
@Miclux @cypherpunks have you ever done anything inside of a big city? have you ever commuted to work?
Have you ever done this between small villages? 30km apart? Have fun.
I actually do so regularly
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So you proved my point. Try it in a village or very small town.
@Miclux Oh wow, it’s almost if villages or small towns could be improved with better public transportation options and fewer cars. This is a great revelation, thank you for this chat.
Even while having a car, I found my self taking transit anyways. To the point where both my daughters (15 and 17) have absolutely no desire to get a car or their drivers because not only do they see what’s happening to the climate, but know transit well enough that vehicles are next to pointless for them. My understanding is that many, not all, of their friends thing the same way, too.
That, and I don’t care if you drive a BMW. My ride costs 150k, and comes with a driver who opens the door for me. Fuck cars and the status that goes with 'em, too.
What you call transit is a bus?
Interesting fact, it costs tens of thousands of dollars to get a permit to own a car in Singapore.
The only issue I have with this take is how it ignores how the changes happened over decades, not overnight. Of course no one would choose any of these pictures, but that’s not how it started out, and the slow changes is exactly why we bought into the idea. It also can’t be easily undone or changed, even in a progressive society.
“They” are us. As we change things, they get changed:-). Slowly but surely… it’s happening!
I get this is absurd on purpose, but I don’t think having a decent amount of groceries on hand is crazy. I don’t drive and I aim to not have to go to the store every other day. 2 weeks seems about right for grocery store frequency.
When grocery stores are close (walkable) it becomes super convenient to just go there every few days instead of managing a stockpile of food. Works way better for small spaces and for eating fresh foods. Don’t knock it til you try it!
I’m not saying that’s unreasonable either, tbf. I don’t live in walking distance to a grocery store, though, and neither do most people I suspect, so bigger shopping trips just make sense. It would definitely be nicer to have a store nearby, though!
100%!
Fun fact: suburbs and related approaches to the design of land use are structured around increasing the distance between homes and services. The idea is to isolate the suburbanites (at the time, white people) from everyone else so that their material conditions could become disconnected and racism catered to. Red lining and all that.
So a big part of the reason things are so far away is so that capitalism could continue using racist policies to get what it wanted. And now we have to buy 2-3 weeks of food at a time even if we don’t live in suburbs, as our infrastructure is built around the expectations of the surrounding suburbs.
Anyways it’s not your fault you’ve gotta stock up so I don’t blame ya! We’ve all gotta deal with structures in our society that we had no control over.
I aim to not have to go to the store every other day
From my perspective it’s sorta crazy. How does one even have the space for several weeks of perishable groceries, or move them effectively from the store home. It all seems like so much wasted space.
Also how does one plan buying all you potential cravings for two weeks. I sorta don’t get it, emotionally I don’t.
I encourage you to try living a <10min walk from a grocery store if you ever get the chance. Right now I’m at< 3min to walking to the grocery store. It’s the best. Especially if it’s open till midnight or god forbid 24/7.
I should start handing these flyers out at gas stations on Sunday on the I15 from Vegas back to California. People feeling like shit hung over cursing traffic for hours on end, the usefulness of a train alternative is super apparent in this situation.
