While this is fabulous news I do worry that there could be similar done for other genetic conditions that are far more contentious as to whether they’re a disability not.
Neurodivergence is the one that springs to mind right away. The majority of people on the autism spectrum are at level 1. While it has negatives there are positives into thinking and seeing the world differently.
How many of those would have been ‘curered’ in the womb by scared parents who’ve just been told that their child will be born autistic? Scared parents who’s fear will mean when hearing that they think of someone at the far end of level 3.
Then what about for ADHD and dyslexia.
What about other physical conditions like dwarfism etc.
I don’t know if you personally have any disabilities, but generally, when I see this take, the person doesn’t.
I’d take a crispr treatment without hesitation. And everyone I know would do the same. My partner and I are doing IVF not for fertility reasons but to ensure certain genes don’t get passed down to our kids.
That whole disability-is-a-positive view is a very privileged thing to say.
Not the person you replied to, but this is a nuanced conversation, much beyond the simplicity of disabled or not.
Deafness is the one that comes to mind,
there are others that do as well, but I grew up in a Deaf household so I know a bit more about it.
For a group of Deaf people, they quite like being Deaf, they have their own language and schools etc. Those schools arent particularly decent, but for the group that like being Deaf they dont care. They’d rather fix the schools then fix their kids.
The notion that disability is a social issue is true, but fixing society to cater towards most disabled groups is a far greater task in most cases. Obviously Deafness and others are the expection where it is felt that it is easier/better to fix society.
Deafness has been “curable” for a while, yet i was raised to see that cure as a form of genocide, trying to erradicate a linguistic minority, rather than fix them. As without deaf children, it was very unlikely anyone would pick up their language.
I frankly think that there is no downside to try to be positive about disablilty, i say this from the uk, where the rhetoric has been destructive beyond belief. That said it is all very case dependent.
Thanks for the response. I understand what you’re saying, and I wholeheartedly agree that society should be more accommodating of disabilities. No argument there.
However, you’re mixing up a coping mechanism for a true belief that ones disability is a net positive. I am not deaf, but I see this all the time in my circles and my own upbringing. Growing up, my parents would regularly visit religious authorities and psychics to assure them my circumstances were for the greater good, and I’d have met a horrible end without it. In my teens and early 20s, I believed this too. Many caregivers and disabled need to believe this to get through the day and find meaning in their lots.
I dont throw shade on anyone coping like this. It’s a much better path than the other ones I’ve seen, such as depression, suicide, and drugs. But at the end of the day, that’s all it is, a coping strategy. I promise, in their heart-of-hearts, if they could “reroll” their genetic lottery and avoid their disability. Every single person would. No sane person would voluntarily sign up for this.
While one could attempt to make an argument that society as a whole benefits from disabled people. And I dont disagree. A society that cares for disabled would be more humane and a nicer place to live in. But no rational person would seek it out for themselves. I’m not directing this at you, but imo those that subscribe to the belief, like OOP, are either misinformed about disabilities or are hand waving away the harm it does to the person.
Very true. I’m not saying it’s something that would be soon. These are discussions that should be now, to help determine morally where we as societies want to go with the new technology.
Personally I see this rift in the trans community rather often (although not as much right now anymore, there isn’t much room for controversial arguments when being threatened from ‘outside’). On one hand the absolute majority will tell you that they “wished to be born in the right body”. On the other hand many dislike or even reject science into how being trans happens (like this study) out of the very reasonable fear that it will be used to, again, pathologize our existence or outright eradicate us. I’ve heard similar hard questions and controversial discussions from other communities over the years as well. They usually somewhat reach academic circles at best but are never really discussed in public.
In the end it boils down to what the ulterior motive behind the science or technology is; care for- or eradication of humans (or their natural expression). And of course where we out the line between the definition of diversity and illness, something society has a really bad track record for.
So…Remember the X-Men series of movies? I forget which of the films it was, I stopped giving a shit about superhero movies a decade before it was cool, but one of them involved a “mutant cure.” Most of Professor X’s mutants saw it as an existential threat, but Rogue–whose ‘powers’ utterly sucked–saw it as something she wanted to do.
Ultimately I think the key here is individual consent. Yes and No need to be equally valid answers otherwise it gets pretty fucked up.
Some folks make a pretty good living for themselves looking at the world slightly differently than everyone else, other folks would like to do something with their life other than drool. Surely we the civilization that can split the atom and splice the genome can help both of these people live their best lives? Otherwise what the fuck are we even doing here?
Okay I suppose force vegetables to be vegetables. I’m honestly to burned out to give the first two half-flaccid thrusts of a reluctant pity fuck about basically anyone.
I also meant more like, even if they “come back,” would they even be able to integrate? Can they (re)learn language and motor skills? Sorry to bother you.
No seriously, why did any of you continue to give a shit about Marvel after, like, 2006? That was about the time I realized I lost track of how many Incredible Hulk movies they made, and I would learn later that’s when my interest in movies overall died because that’s all they would ever make ever again
Son you sound young, there’s a lot more to cinema than popcorn flicks like marvel movies, they didn’t stop making good movies, it’s just harder to find and requires people put their money and time to go watch something other than summer blockbusters, expand your taste and maybe also watch older movies, many local theatre’s do reruns of older classics
What this guy said. Or, even better, why doesn’t Captain Aggravated just go make their own movie? It’s not super complicated to do, but it does require getting others involved, since nobody can do everything.
I’m 38 years old. The last time I remember having a good time at a movie theatre was Inglourious Basterds, and if the movies require effort to glean enjoyment out of it I hope I never see a movie again in my life. Used to be you could look up what’s playing at the 4-plex and there’d usually be something fun on. That hasn’t been the case since the last time I felt an emotion and I don’t think either thing is ever going to happen again so fuck it.
See that’s the thing, you want an amusement ride that’s fun, but movies can be more than that, if you can’t have fun anymore, try watching something that’s not trying to be fun, and maybe something clicks, I recently watched 12 Angry Men on a whim, it’s about 12 jurors discussing on a virdict for a man accused of killing his father, this movie came out in 1957, it’s black and white, I didn’t think I could even sit through such a old movie let alone like it, but it was one of the most engaging movies I’ve ever seen and the plot felt so relevant to the current times.
Some other stuff I saw recently that I liked :
Predator Killler of Killers
Sinners
Warfare
The Rule of Jenny Pen
Friendship
The Life of Chuck
If you want to watch some old movies that are genuinely special, look up the movies that Alfred Hitchcock made in the 40s and 50s, both color and B&W. I’m especially fond of the bunch he did at the end of the 50s - The Man Who Knew Too Much, North By Northwest, Vertigo, Psycho, and my favorite movie of all time, Rear Window. A few other really interesting ones are Strangers On A Train, Lifeboat, Dial M for Murder, Notorious, Rebecca, etc.
Absolutely mind-blowing, they’re so good. His stuff from the 30s and the 60s is okay, but his middle period was incredible.
Yeah, on the one hand it isn’t fair to let someone be born with a condition that negatively effects their life when there’s a treatment to prevent it happening. On the other hand, as you say it’s good to have divergent people in society - there really is strength in diversity.
Fewer, not none. Adhd for example tends to interfere with the pursuit of longer term goals in some ways, regardless of society’s pressures and expectations. Those make it asymmetrically harder on top of everything else.
The social model of disability is essential, but it’s not the only perspective to keep in mind.
While this is fabulous news I do worry that there could be similar done for other genetic conditions that are far more contentious as to whether they’re a disability not.
Neurodivergence is the one that springs to mind right away. The majority of people on the autism spectrum are at level 1. While it has negatives there are positives into thinking and seeing the world differently.
How many of those would have been ‘curered’ in the womb by scared parents who’ve just been told that their child will be born autistic? Scared parents who’s fear will mean when hearing that they think of someone at the far end of level 3.
Then what about for ADHD and dyslexia.
What about other physical conditions like dwarfism etc.
I don’t know if you personally have any disabilities, but generally, when I see this take, the person doesn’t.
I’d take a crispr treatment without hesitation. And everyone I know would do the same. My partner and I are doing IVF not for fertility reasons but to ensure certain genes don’t get passed down to our kids.
That whole disability-is-a-positive view is a very privileged thing to say.
Not the person you replied to, but this is a nuanced conversation, much beyond the simplicity of disabled or not.
Deafness is the one that comes to mind, there are others that do as well, but I grew up in a Deaf household so I know a bit more about it.
For a group of Deaf people, they quite like being Deaf, they have their own language and schools etc. Those schools arent particularly decent, but for the group that like being Deaf they dont care. They’d rather fix the schools then fix their kids.
The notion that disability is a social issue is true, but fixing society to cater towards most disabled groups is a far greater task in most cases. Obviously Deafness and others are the expection where it is felt that it is easier/better to fix society.
Deafness has been “curable” for a while, yet i was raised to see that cure as a form of genocide, trying to erradicate a linguistic minority, rather than fix them. As without deaf children, it was very unlikely anyone would pick up their language.
I frankly think that there is no downside to try to be positive about disablilty, i say this from the uk, where the rhetoric has been destructive beyond belief. That said it is all very case dependent.
Thanks for the response. I understand what you’re saying, and I wholeheartedly agree that society should be more accommodating of disabilities. No argument there.
However, you’re mixing up a coping mechanism for a true belief that ones disability is a net positive. I am not deaf, but I see this all the time in my circles and my own upbringing. Growing up, my parents would regularly visit religious authorities and psychics to assure them my circumstances were for the greater good, and I’d have met a horrible end without it. In my teens and early 20s, I believed this too. Many caregivers and disabled need to believe this to get through the day and find meaning in their lots.
I dont throw shade on anyone coping like this. It’s a much better path than the other ones I’ve seen, such as depression, suicide, and drugs. But at the end of the day, that’s all it is, a coping strategy. I promise, in their heart-of-hearts, if they could “reroll” their genetic lottery and avoid their disability. Every single person would. No sane person would voluntarily sign up for this.
While one could attempt to make an argument that society as a whole benefits from disabled people. And I dont disagree. A society that cares for disabled would be more humane and a nicer place to live in. But no rational person would seek it out for themselves. I’m not directing this at you, but imo those that subscribe to the belief, like OOP, are either misinformed about disabilities or are hand waving away the harm it does to the person.
Pretty sure Autism is a lot more complex genetically and we don’t even know just how complex.
Very true. I’m not saying it’s something that would be soon. These are discussions that should be now, to help determine morally where we as societies want to go with the new technology.
Personally I see this rift in the trans community rather often (although not as much right now anymore, there isn’t much room for controversial arguments when being threatened from ‘outside’). On one hand the absolute majority will tell you that they “wished to be born in the right body”. On the other hand many dislike or even reject science into how being trans happens (like this study) out of the very reasonable fear that it will be used to, again, pathologize our existence or outright eradicate us. I’ve heard similar hard questions and controversial discussions from other communities over the years as well. They usually somewhat reach academic circles at best but are never really discussed in public.
In the end it boils down to what the ulterior motive behind the science or technology is; care for- or eradication of humans (or their natural expression). And of course where we out the line between the definition of diversity and illness, something society has a really bad track record for.
So…Remember the X-Men series of movies? I forget which of the films it was, I stopped giving a shit about superhero movies a decade before it was cool, but one of them involved a “mutant cure.” Most of Professor X’s mutants saw it as an existential threat, but Rogue–whose ‘powers’ utterly sucked–saw it as something she wanted to do.
Ultimately I think the key here is individual consent. Yes and No need to be equally valid answers otherwise it gets pretty fucked up.
Some folks make a pretty good living for themselves looking at the world slightly differently than everyone else, other folks would like to do something with their life other than drool. Surely we the civilization that can split the atom and splice the genome can help both of these people live their best lives? Otherwise what the fuck are we even doing here?
Not trying to be an ass, but how would you know that? How could you get consent from someone in that state?
Okay I suppose force vegetables to be vegetables. I’m honestly to burned out to give the first two half-flaccid thrusts of a reluctant pity fuck about basically anyone.
powerful wording!
I also meant more like, even if they “come back,” would they even be able to integrate? Can they (re)learn language and motor skills? Sorry to bother you.
I’m not like the other girls, I stopped caring about superhero movies long before others
No seriously, why did any of you continue to give a shit about Marvel after, like, 2006? That was about the time I realized I lost track of how many Incredible Hulk movies they made, and I would learn later that’s when my interest in movies overall died because that’s all they would ever make ever again
Son you sound young, there’s a lot more to cinema than popcorn flicks like marvel movies, they didn’t stop making good movies, it’s just harder to find and requires people put their money and time to go watch something other than summer blockbusters, expand your taste and maybe also watch older movies, many local theatre’s do reruns of older classics
What this guy said. Or, even better, why doesn’t Captain Aggravated just go make their own movie? It’s not super complicated to do, but it does require getting others involved, since nobody can do everything.
I’m 38 years old. The last time I remember having a good time at a movie theatre was Inglourious Basterds, and if the movies require effort to glean enjoyment out of it I hope I never see a movie again in my life. Used to be you could look up what’s playing at the 4-plex and there’d usually be something fun on. That hasn’t been the case since the last time I felt an emotion and I don’t think either thing is ever going to happen again so fuck it.
See that’s the thing, you want an amusement ride that’s fun, but movies can be more than that, if you can’t have fun anymore, try watching something that’s not trying to be fun, and maybe something clicks, I recently watched 12 Angry Men on a whim, it’s about 12 jurors discussing on a virdict for a man accused of killing his father, this movie came out in 1957, it’s black and white, I didn’t think I could even sit through such a old movie let alone like it, but it was one of the most engaging movies I’ve ever seen and the plot felt so relevant to the current times.
Some other stuff I saw recently that I liked : Predator Killler of Killers
Sinners
Warfare
The Rule of Jenny Pen
Friendship
The Life of Chuck
If you want to watch some old movies that are genuinely special, look up the movies that Alfred Hitchcock made in the 40s and 50s, both color and B&W. I’m especially fond of the bunch he did at the end of the 50s - The Man Who Knew Too Much, North By Northwest, Vertigo, Psycho, and my favorite movie of all time, Rear Window. A few other really interesting ones are Strangers On A Train, Lifeboat, Dial M for Murder, Notorious, Rebecca, etc.
Absolutely mind-blowing, they’re so good. His stuff from the 30s and the 60s is okay, but his middle period was incredible.
I’ve seen vertigo and psycho, amazing movies, the others are on my list
Yeah, on the one hand it isn’t fair to let someone be born with a condition that negatively effects their life when there’s a treatment to prevent it happening. On the other hand, as you say it’s good to have divergent people in society - there really is strength in diversity.
If the world would accomidate for Neurodivergent people more they wouldnt have a problem
Fewer, not none. Adhd for example tends to interfere with the pursuit of longer term goals in some ways, regardless of society’s pressures and expectations. Those make it asymmetrically harder on top of everything else.
The social model of disability is essential, but it’s not the only perspective to keep in mind.
In a way, accommodations can erase disabilities.
I’m still waiting to be tested but I swear if we were still hunters and gatherers in a small tribe then my suspected ADHD would be irrelevant.