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I think “might be overkill” would be a better title and position than “usually overkill.”
It factually is not.
most people would fall behind anytime they drive further than the average number of miles.
Assume you drive it all the way to empty, then park it and plug it back in at 7PM. Leave it for 12 hours until you leave again in the morning at 7AM. A typical small EV will charge at ~5MPH on a 110V, 1.2kW connection (faster on a 20A circuit). So 5MPH x 12 hours means you already have 60 miles of range again for the next day. And I would say that’s a pretty extreme scenario.
Realistically you would never drive it to 0% and you would probably leave it parked longer than 12 hours.
I use L1 almost exclusively, BTW.
Probably if you have a Hummer or something you might want something a bit faster.
Congrats on finding a solution that works for you. I have a short commute (16 miles round trip) and was OK to use L1 charging on a “usually” basis. However, I do more things in my life than just going to work and back. After work I might drive another 90 miles round trip to meet some friends at a brewery. Or I might drive only a couple miles to a buddy’s house and not get home until 11pm, so I now only have 7 hours to charge at L1 instead of 12 hours. And on weekends when I’m maybe driving a couple hours to hike in the desert and come back, I now have 16 hours to charge for work on Monday after driving 210 miles round trip.
Switching from L1 to L2 charging at home made driving an EV go from a daily chore to something I almost never thought about.
That depends on what is meant by usually. You seem to think it means “most daily situations,” but I think it means “most house installations.” Yes, a usual day in a person’s life does not require L2. But the usual person does require L2 if they want to use their car like most people prefer to use their car. Once a week I need L2 charging because of all the stuff I do that isn’t commuting. That is 1 day in a 7 day week, so usually I don’t need L2. But I would not be able to have an EV if I didn’t have L2 unless I had a second car (which I don’t have). I think most people fall into this category, so the usual person needs L2 even if they don’t usually need L2.
You seem to think it means “most daily situations,” but I think it means “most house installations.”
That’s the opposite of what I think.
Once a week I need L2 charging because of all the stuff I do that isn’t commuting.
No you don’t. You go and do those things, then plug it in and charge it up over the next 6 days until it’s fully charged again. If that is insufficient then you are not a typical usecase.
So when I get home from a 200 mile round trip to the desert on Sunday night, I have roughly 20 miles of range on the Bolt. If I can add 40 miles of range to my car overnight (10 hours of charging at 4mph), that gives me 60 miles of range to do a 20 mile round trip commute. But what if I want to go to the Dodgers game after work? Or if I need to run a bunch of errands after work that I skipped while in the desert? People want their car to be able to go places when they want to go places.
You are talking to me as if you think I didn’t own multiple full EVs as my only car for over 6 years. I lived with a 90mile range Toyota Rav4 EV without DC fast charging and took it on road trips. I also lived with that car without L2 charging for a month. That month was miserable, and I would have never kept that car if I didn’t upgrade to L2.
If you have a second car, then you don’t need a 300 mile range EV and also don’t need L2. If you have a very short commute and don’t do anything after work or on the weekends, then you don’t need L2.
If that is insufficient then you are not a typical usecase.
If you are doing a 200 mile trip, being home for 10 hours, then going out and doing another hundred miles on a regular basis, you are an extreme usecase. If you do this 1 or 2x/year this could easily be covered by spending literally a few extra bucks and stopping at a (presumably existent) L3 station for a few minutes.
I do the same trips as the rest of you, only on a monthly basis with multiple bikes strapped to a hitch on the back, and in a 200-mile vehicle. I arrive home with very little range (<10%), but over the course of just a few days on L1 I will be back to 80%, without making any compromises about where I want/need to go.
People want their car to be able to go places when they want to go places
“People” don’t need to travel the same way you do.
You are talking to me as if you think I didn’t own multiple full EVs
No I am talking to you as if you don’t understand the usecase of the vast majority of drivers, and you don’t understand the point of the video in the OP. Which is fine, most people don’t, that’s why he made it.
Factually, it’s not either. Both are statements of opinion, although I’d say saying the word “usually” should have some degree of proof behind it.
My statement of “might be” recognizes that there are many instances that L1 makes sense, and I agree with the video that for those for whom it does shouldn’t needlessly install a 240v outlet. Sounds like you’re among those.
I’d say that, sadly, most EV drivers drive more than 40 miles per day on average, and that the moment you drive more than 60 miles per day you’ll have difficulty recharging to full. Most days, you’ll have no trouble recharging overnight. But if you’re like me, you might take a day trip over 100 miles away a handful of times per year. When that happens, I’d arrive home with very little battery left; am I supposed to have the ability to charge for 50 hours?
Factually, it’s not either. Both are statements of opinion
It is not. Hence “factually”. We know for a fact how far people “usually” drive.
But if you’re like me, you might take a day trip over 100 miles away a handful of times per year. When that happens, I’d arrive home with very little battery left; am I supposed to have the ability to charge for 50 hours?
I just explained this in the comment you replied to.
I just explained this in the comment you replied to.
You explained how it’s doable when you drive 60 miles, which I admit will be most people most days (12 hours of charging at 5 miles per hour charged.) Average EV has 293 miles of range currently; even if you arrived home with 20% battery remaining and you only wanted to recharge to 80%, that’s (at 5 miles per hour charged) over 25 hours. Empty to full is over 58 hours!
At least once every few months we take a day trip to the nearest “big” city, which is 105 miles away. Typically a Sunday. Leave on a full battery, arrive home nearly empty. 8 hours of charging, and I maybe have enough for the next day. I will run a deficit until the weekend.
Again, I’m certainly not saying that a L2 charger is a must for all people, or even most people. But I would not agree that L1 is enough for most people.
It factually is not.
Assume you drive it all the way to empty, then park it and plug it back in at 7PM. Leave it for 12 hours until you leave again in the morning at 7AM. A typical small EV will charge at ~5MPH on a 110V, 1.2kW connection (faster on a 20A circuit). So 5MPH x 12 hours means you already have 60 miles of range again for the next day. And I would say that’s a pretty extreme scenario.
Realistically you would never drive it to 0% and you would probably leave it parked longer than 12 hours.
I use L1 almost exclusively, BTW.
Probably if you have a Hummer or something you might want something a bit faster.
Congrats on finding a solution that works for you. I have a short commute (16 miles round trip) and was OK to use L1 charging on a “usually” basis. However, I do more things in my life than just going to work and back. After work I might drive another 90 miles round trip to meet some friends at a brewery. Or I might drive only a couple miles to a buddy’s house and not get home until 11pm, so I now only have 7 hours to charge at L1 instead of 12 hours. And on weekends when I’m maybe driving a couple hours to hike in the desert and come back, I now have 16 hours to charge for work on Monday after driving 210 miles round trip.
Switching from L1 to L2 charging at home made driving an EV go from a daily chore to something I almost never thought about.
This is not about me or you, this is “usually”.
That depends on what is meant by usually. You seem to think it means “most daily situations,” but I think it means “most house installations.” Yes, a usual day in a person’s life does not require L2. But the usual person does require L2 if they want to use their car like most people prefer to use their car. Once a week I need L2 charging because of all the stuff I do that isn’t commuting. That is 1 day in a 7 day week, so usually I don’t need L2. But I would not be able to have an EV if I didn’t have L2 unless I had a second car (which I don’t have). I think most people fall into this category, so the usual person needs L2 even if they don’t usually need L2.
That’s the opposite of what I think.
No you don’t. You go and do those things, then plug it in and charge it up over the next 6 days until it’s fully charged again. If that is insufficient then you are not a typical usecase.
So when I get home from a 200 mile round trip to the desert on Sunday night, I have roughly 20 miles of range on the Bolt. If I can add 40 miles of range to my car overnight (10 hours of charging at 4mph), that gives me 60 miles of range to do a 20 mile round trip commute. But what if I want to go to the Dodgers game after work? Or if I need to run a bunch of errands after work that I skipped while in the desert? People want their car to be able to go places when they want to go places.
You are talking to me as if you think I didn’t own multiple full EVs as my only car for over 6 years. I lived with a 90mile range Toyota Rav4 EV without DC fast charging and took it on road trips. I also lived with that car without L2 charging for a month. That month was miserable, and I would have never kept that car if I didn’t upgrade to L2.
If you have a second car, then you don’t need a 300 mile range EV and also don’t need L2. If you have a very short commute and don’t do anything after work or on the weekends, then you don’t need L2.
If you are doing a 200 mile trip, being home for 10 hours, then going out and doing another hundred miles on a regular basis, you are an extreme usecase. If you do this 1 or 2x/year this could easily be covered by spending literally a few extra bucks and stopping at a (presumably existent) L3 station for a few minutes.
I do the same trips as the rest of you, only on a monthly basis with multiple bikes strapped to a hitch on the back, and in a 200-mile vehicle. I arrive home with very little range (<10%), but over the course of just a few days on L1 I will be back to 80%, without making any compromises about where I want/need to go.
“People” don’t need to travel the same way you do.
No I am talking to you as if you don’t understand the usecase of the vast majority of drivers, and you don’t understand the point of the video in the OP. Which is fine, most people don’t, that’s why he made it.
What electric vehicle gets 5 miles/1.2kWh? That’s only 240 Wh/mi.
Most of the small ones.
You guys really should do some reading before you downvote things you don’t understand
Factually, it’s not either. Both are statements of opinion, although I’d say saying the word “usually” should have some degree of proof behind it.
My statement of “might be” recognizes that there are many instances that L1 makes sense, and I agree with the video that for those for whom it does shouldn’t needlessly install a 240v outlet. Sounds like you’re among those.
I’d say that, sadly, most EV drivers drive more than 40 miles per day on average, and that the moment you drive more than 60 miles per day you’ll have difficulty recharging to full. Most days, you’ll have no trouble recharging overnight. But if you’re like me, you might take a day trip over 100 miles away a handful of times per year. When that happens, I’d arrive home with very little battery left; am I supposed to have the ability to charge for 50 hours?
It is not. Hence “factually”. We know for a fact how far people “usually” drive.
I just explained this in the comment you replied to.
You explained how it’s doable when you drive 60 miles, which I admit will be most people most days (12 hours of charging at 5 miles per hour charged.) Average EV has 293 miles of range currently; even if you arrived home with 20% battery remaining and you only wanted to recharge to 80%, that’s (at 5 miles per hour charged) over 25 hours. Empty to full is over 58 hours!
At least once every few months we take a day trip to the nearest “big” city, which is 105 miles away. Typically a Sunday. Leave on a full battery, arrive home nearly empty. 8 hours of charging, and I maybe have enough for the next day. I will run a deficit until the weekend.
Again, I’m certainly not saying that a L2 charger is a must for all people, or even most people. But I would not agree that L1 is enough for most people.
Read it again. I said 60 miles the day after driving it to 0%. People don’t “usually” need this.
Thats 176 miles of range. People don’t “usually” need that.
You said all of this already and I already replied to it.
🤔 Wat. Do you think there’s like a L1.5 or something?
There’s the option of a level 1 charger at home, supplemented with an occasional stop at a fast charger.
The L1 charger is not quite enough to keep up with their usage, but their usage isn’t enough to make an L2 absolutely necessary.
Let’s agree to simply not tell people what they do and do not need.
I’m not telling anyone what they need. I’m telling you what people usually need. Which is the topic of the conversation you started.