- cross-posted to:
- politics@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- politics@lemmy.world
A man who was believed to be part of a peacekeeping team for the “No Kings” protest in Salt Lake City shot at a person who was brandishing a rifle at demonstrators, striking both the rifleman and a bystander who later died at the hospital, authorities said Sunday.
Police took the alleged rifleman, Arturo Gamboa, 24, into custody Saturday evening on a murder charge, Salt Lake City Police Chief Brian Redd said at a Sunday news conference. The bystander was Arthur Folasa Ah Loo, 39, a fashion designer from Samoa.
Detectives don’t yet know why Gamboa pulled out a rifle or ran from the peacekeepers, but they accused him of creating the dangerous situation that led to Ah Loo’s death. The Associated Press did not immediately find an attorney listed for Gamboa or contact information for his family in public records.
That’s not the law, or reality in America. It’s a regular occurrence at certain protests for people to open carry weapons. Not saying I would do it, but it’s not sufficient cause to shoot someone.
Brandishing a weapon is not the same as carrying it. Brandishing is what you do when moving the firearm in a way that indicates you are threatening to shoot. In the worst case, it involves pointing the firearm at someone.
If someone purposely points a firearm at you, you have every right to fire in self defence. At least those were the rules of engagement we were taught regarding interactions with civilians at home when I was in the army.
The only people brandishing in the video are the self-described “peacekeepers” who are aiming their pistols into the crowd. The open-carrier isn’t even looking their way and appears just as surprised as everyone else when one of these peacekeepers starts blasting (with minimal awareness or concern for whomever else was downrange).
I wasn’t commenting on whether or not anyone was brandishing, but on the fact that it is reasonable to treat someone brandishing a firearm as a lethal threat.
In short: You are justified in shooting someone who is armed and clearly indicates they are about to open fire on you. You don’t need to wait for them to get off a shot before firing back.
In the whole, I’m very glad my country isn’t as heavily armed as the US, and this is one of the reasons. When a bunch of people are walking around with guns, the potential for situations getting out of hand and people getting killed is much larger. It’s enough that someone misunderstands someone else’s intentions, and you can suddenly have people shooting. I would honestly be terrified if everywhere I went there were people that could potentially kill me at a moments notice without even getting close to me.
This gif isn’t loading on my phone, but supposedly it’s the same as a video I had seen earlier - it shows Gamboa walking towards the street but his rifle is pointed down. It also shows the yellow vested people pointing their guns toward him. If the gif also doesn’t work for you, scroll further up in the thread to at least see screenshots. The op of that thread, Chad Loder, has been commenting on this shooting a fair amount. https://bsky.app/profile/nope-notnow.bsky.social/post/3lrp7xsx3vs22
I was commenting on the general situation of “are you justified in treating someone brandishing a weapon as a lethal threat?”, not the specifics of this situation. I haven’t seen the video, so won’t comment on whether this person specifically was brandishing or not.
Open carry and brandish have distinct legal definitions.
Also it wasn’t open carried to the protest, it was retrieved mid protest from a hidden location
This gif isn’t loading on my phone, but supposedly it’s the same as a video I had seen earlier - it shows Gamboa walking towards the street but his rifle is pointed down. It also shows the yellow vested people pointing their guns toward him. If the gif also doesn’t work for you, scroll further up in the thread to at least see screenshots. The op of that thread, Chad Loder, has been commenting on this shooting a fair amount. https://bsky.app/profile/nope-notnow.bsky.social/post/3lrp7xsx3vs22
This gif isn’t loading on my phone, but supposedly it’s the same as a video I had seen earlier - it shows Gamboa walking towards the street but his rifle is pointed down. It also shows the yellow vested people pointing their guns toward him. If the gif also doesn’t work for you, scroll further up in the thread to at least see screenshots. The op of that thread, Chad Loder, has been commenting on this shooting a fair amount. https://bsky.app/profile/nope-notnow.bsky.social/post/3lrp7xsx3vs22
Oh to be clear I wasn’t arguing the reality, but brandishing is what he’s accused of and that’s legally very different from open carrying.