Russia is not waging a war against Europe, but against Ukraine
Ukraine is in Europe.
They are literally explicitly not waging a war against Europe
Pro-war Russians often talk about the idea that they’re not just fighting Ukraine but the whole of NATO.
none of their leaderships really think that Russia is a military threat to them
If that’s true then why have many European countries been making plans to vastly increase their defence spending? They’ve been doing this because of the threat that Russia poses.
I read an article about Germany’s chief of defence. Apparently Russia is now producing about 1,500 tanks every year. The German chief of defence said “not every single tank is going to [the war in] Ukraine, but it’s also going in stocks and into new military structures always facing the West”. Evidence like this supports his belief that Russia’s stockpiles “could be used for an attack on Nato Baltic state members by 2029 or even earlier”.
Ukraine is not the whole of Europe or a majority of Europe. It’s 1 country in Europe.
the idea
The ideas don’t matter, reality does. Russia is not fighting NATO because the attacks on NATO or Russian territory have been extremely limited, and most of the attacks on Russian territory or infrastructure are carried out by Ukraine.
If that’s true then why have many European countries been making plans to vastly increase their defence spending?
That’s the standard neoliberal playbook. Neoliberals have been overspending on war and invading every part of the planet since the end of WW2. Pretending that neoliberals increasing war spending is a sign of greater national security threats is like saying that the sun rising from the east is a sign that it’s going to rain today.
The current crop of eurolibs is in simple terms using the war in Ukraine as a pretense to militarise. If they were so worried about an imminent Russian invasion or threat after Ukraine, they would not be pouring their already strained reserves to commit genocide in Palestine. Instead they would be conserving resources.
Neoliberals have been overspending on war and invading every part of the planet since the end of WW2.
I don’t think Europe plans to invade anywhere. Meanwhile Russia actually is invading Europe (Ukraine is part of Europe).
Look at how the European countries that are increasing their defence spending the most (Poland, the Baltics) are the ones next to Russia. The ones who are most likely to be attacked by Russia.
If they were so worried about an imminent Russian invasion or threat after Ukraine, they would not be pouring their already strained reserves to commit genocide in Palestine. Instead they would be conserving resources.
I don’t think European countries are “pouring their already strained reserves to commit genocide in Palestine”. Are European countries donating weapons to Israel? I think the US has given military aid to Israel, but I don’t know if Europe has.
Recently there was a statement from the UK, France, and Canada, where they said that Israel’s current action in Gaza is wrong. Maybe these countries should do more to stop what Israel is doing. Maybe they should sanction Israel. I think that could make sense.
Have I been imagining the euro-american wars and colonialism in the middle east then? The ones literally ongoing right now?
Look at how the European countries that are increasing their defence spending the most (Poland, the Baltics) are the ones next to Russia
And these are also the most neoliberalised, nationalistic and militantly anti-communist states in europe. And these were heavily armed states well before the Russian involvement in Ukraine.
The doctrine of “peace through strength” has scarcely ever worked out, especially not in europe. Modern European history is a basket case of out-of-control arms races.
Are European countries donating weapons to Israel?
Literally yes. Germany is a major one. And Britain helps with reconnaissance and supplying parts for things like F35s.
Recently there was a statement from the UK, France, and Canada, where they said that Israel’s current action in Gaza is wrong
Congratulations to the European politicians I guess for realising that maybe giving unconditional public support for fascism has a negative effect on your optics.
I guess they can move on to trying to hide better their assistance to israel. Perhaps they can launder it through Al jolani and his dictatorship in Syria. He did recently meet with the European heads of states, and he did afterwards announce that he would collaborate with israel. Not to mention that the fall of baathism in Syria severely negatively impacts the logistics of supplying the Palestinian resistance. So even if jolani did nothing else, by proping him up, the European states can ensure that no one can actually stop Israeli soldiers on the ground.
If you think Europe should do more to stop what Israel is doing in Gaza, and the West Bank, then I think that is fair. Europe probably should do more on that front.
Surely though that’s a separate issue to the issue of the UK spending more on defence to deter aggression from Russia.
If you think Europe should do more to stop what Israel is doing in Gaza
They should start by not supplying Israel and America with military support and parts.
Surely though that’s a separate issue to the issue of the UK spending more on defence to deter aggression from Russia.
Is it? The European countries have fought scarcely any defensive wars since ww2. Do you think the weapons built today in the name of defending against Russia will not be used for Europe’s next colonial adventures?
Not to mention, everytime europe arms itself, other countries also arm themselves in response. And this time, the Europeans don’t even have the industrial capacity to actually arm themselves for a peer to peer conflict (only for suppressing insurgents in colonies). They really just want to shovel money to consultants and the MIC.
I still think these are two different issues. If you think Europe and the UK should do more to try and stop Israel’s conduct in Palestine then that’s fair enough. Maybe the UK should sanction Israel and/or take other measures.
I do think Russia is a threat to Europe though. When they were building up troops on the border of Ukraine in 2021/2022 they denied that they were going to launch a new invasion of Ukraine. But that’s what they ended up doing in February 2022. Apparently Russia is now building up a stockpile of tanks besides what they’re using for the invasion of Ukraine. So it’s possible that Russia might attack another European country in the next few years, as senior military figures across Europe seem to be predicting.
If you think Europe and the UK should do more to try and stop Israel’s conduct in Palestine then that’s fair enough.
I’m talking more big picture. You have to look at geopolitics from the big picture, and the little details as well. What kinds and quantities of weapons will your new defense spending provide? What social services will your government cut using the excuse of managing the budget? What are the energy and mineral costs of these new weapons? Are these new weapons actually of the type that will address the threat profile from Russia towards the UK? Where will these weapons be used? Who is gaining the money from these military contracts?
Once you start asking these questions, the whole narrative around western rearmament falls apart. Especially when you look at how these people who want to ramp up military spending are simultaneously pursuing further austerity and de-industrialization. Your government are theives stripping out the copper from your walls, and promising you that they will use the copper wire to build an electric fence around your house. Except also an electric fence doesn’t protect you from the threats you actually face, and the thief doesn’t have the equipment to build you a fence.
As someone living in Europe, I actually do want to see this continent prosper, but I am seeing people repeating the same mistakes of the pre-ww1 era.
I do think Russia is a threat to Europe though.
This idea is contradicted by 3 factors
Russia was willing to prop up European industry by selling it cheap energy and commodities right up until Europe sanctioned Russia. Hell, even today, Russians are indirectly selling gas to Europeans.
Russia’s military involvement in Ukraine and Georgia is based on unique factors that do not apply to the rest of Europe (the encroachment of western military infrastructure into easily penetrable borders. Remember, the Germans were able to march all the way to Moscow by invading through the border at Ukraine in living memory. That border is very difficult to defend).
The idea of “eurasianism” was popularized starting in Russia, that is, the idea of a pan-Eurasian economic and political cooperation. It is easy to see why such an idea would appeal to Russians, since it is in the long-term interests of Russians to cooperate with their neighbors and multi-lateral trade between India, China, Russia and Europe would allow these countries to economically surpass and de-couple from the US.
Now I do not assume that the average European is going to look at Russia after the invasion very fondly, however, Europeans must accept the fact that a) Russia isn’t going anywhere, b) They have 0 incentive to invade Europe unprovoked and finally, c) the de-industrialized neoliberal west has overextended itself in the post covid years to an unsustainable degree. At this rate, the west will be ripped apart by internal forces faster than external ones.
I don’t know why you think Russia should be trusted to launch no more invasions of Europe. When they were building up forces on the borders of Ukraine in 2021/2022, they said they weren’t about to launch a new invasion of Ukraine. But they did just that.
Next time it might be another former-USSR country, like one of the Baltics. The UK is of course obliged by its NATO membership to help the Baltics if they are invaded.
The idea that we should just trust Putin’s government to stay away from Europe seems pretty crazy, given their actual behaviour.
Also you mention “the encroachment of western military infrastructure into easily penetrable borders” as if that’s a legitimate excuse for Russia’s invasions of Ukraine and Georgia. I don’t think it is. Ukraine and Georgia shouldn’t have been invaded.
Ukraine is in Europe.
Pro-war Russians often talk about the idea that they’re not just fighting Ukraine but the whole of NATO.
If that’s true then why have many European countries been making plans to vastly increase their defence spending? They’ve been doing this because of the threat that Russia poses.
I read an article about Germany’s chief of defence. Apparently Russia is now producing about 1,500 tanks every year. The German chief of defence said “not every single tank is going to [the war in] Ukraine, but it’s also going in stocks and into new military structures always facing the West”. Evidence like this supports his belief that Russia’s stockpiles “could be used for an attack on Nato Baltic state members by 2029 or even earlier”.
Ukraine is not the whole of Europe or a majority of Europe. It’s 1 country in Europe.
The ideas don’t matter, reality does. Russia is not fighting NATO because the attacks on NATO or Russian territory have been extremely limited, and most of the attacks on Russian territory or infrastructure are carried out by Ukraine.
That’s the standard neoliberal playbook. Neoliberals have been overspending on war and invading every part of the planet since the end of WW2. Pretending that neoliberals increasing war spending is a sign of greater national security threats is like saying that the sun rising from the east is a sign that it’s going to rain today.
The current crop of eurolibs is in simple terms using the war in Ukraine as a pretense to militarise. If they were so worried about an imminent Russian invasion or threat after Ukraine, they would not be pouring their already strained reserves to commit genocide in Palestine. Instead they would be conserving resources.
I don’t think Europe plans to invade anywhere. Meanwhile Russia actually is invading Europe (Ukraine is part of Europe).
Look at how the European countries that are increasing their defence spending the most (Poland, the Baltics) are the ones next to Russia. The ones who are most likely to be attacked by Russia.
I don’t think European countries are “pouring their already strained reserves to commit genocide in Palestine”. Are European countries donating weapons to Israel? I think the US has given military aid to Israel, but I don’t know if Europe has.
Recently there was a statement from the UK, France, and Canada, where they said that Israel’s current action in Gaza is wrong. Maybe these countries should do more to stop what Israel is doing. Maybe they should sanction Israel. I think that could make sense.
Have I been imagining the euro-american wars and colonialism in the middle east then? The ones literally ongoing right now?
And these are also the most neoliberalised, nationalistic and militantly anti-communist states in europe. And these were heavily armed states well before the Russian involvement in Ukraine.
The doctrine of “peace through strength” has scarcely ever worked out, especially not in europe. Modern European history is a basket case of out-of-control arms races.
Literally yes. Germany is a major one. And Britain helps with reconnaissance and supplying parts for things like F35s.
Congratulations to the European politicians I guess for realising that maybe giving unconditional public support for fascism has a negative effect on your optics.
I guess they can move on to trying to hide better their assistance to israel. Perhaps they can launder it through Al jolani and his dictatorship in Syria. He did recently meet with the European heads of states, and he did afterwards announce that he would collaborate with israel. Not to mention that the fall of baathism in Syria severely negatively impacts the logistics of supplying the Palestinian resistance. So even if jolani did nothing else, by proping him up, the European states can ensure that no one can actually stop Israeli soldiers on the ground.
If you think Europe should do more to stop what Israel is doing in Gaza, and the West Bank, then I think that is fair. Europe probably should do more on that front.
Surely though that’s a separate issue to the issue of the UK spending more on defence to deter aggression from Russia.
They should start by not supplying Israel and America with military support and parts.
Is it? The European countries have fought scarcely any defensive wars since ww2. Do you think the weapons built today in the name of defending against Russia will not be used for Europe’s next colonial adventures?
Not to mention, everytime europe arms itself, other countries also arm themselves in response. And this time, the Europeans don’t even have the industrial capacity to actually arm themselves for a peer to peer conflict (only for suppressing insurgents in colonies). They really just want to shovel money to consultants and the MIC.
I still think these are two different issues. If you think Europe and the UK should do more to try and stop Israel’s conduct in Palestine then that’s fair enough. Maybe the UK should sanction Israel and/or take other measures.
I do think Russia is a threat to Europe though. When they were building up troops on the border of Ukraine in 2021/2022 they denied that they were going to launch a new invasion of Ukraine. But that’s what they ended up doing in February 2022. Apparently Russia is now building up a stockpile of tanks besides what they’re using for the invasion of Ukraine. So it’s possible that Russia might attack another European country in the next few years, as senior military figures across Europe seem to be predicting.
I’m talking more big picture. You have to look at geopolitics from the big picture, and the little details as well. What kinds and quantities of weapons will your new defense spending provide? What social services will your government cut using the excuse of managing the budget? What are the energy and mineral costs of these new weapons? Are these new weapons actually of the type that will address the threat profile from Russia towards the UK? Where will these weapons be used? Who is gaining the money from these military contracts?
Once you start asking these questions, the whole narrative around western rearmament falls apart. Especially when you look at how these people who want to ramp up military spending are simultaneously pursuing further austerity and de-industrialization. Your government are theives stripping out the copper from your walls, and promising you that they will use the copper wire to build an electric fence around your house. Except also an electric fence doesn’t protect you from the threats you actually face, and the thief doesn’t have the equipment to build you a fence.
As someone living in Europe, I actually do want to see this continent prosper, but I am seeing people repeating the same mistakes of the pre-ww1 era.
This idea is contradicted by 3 factors
Now I do not assume that the average European is going to look at Russia after the invasion very fondly, however, Europeans must accept the fact that a) Russia isn’t going anywhere, b) They have 0 incentive to invade Europe unprovoked and finally, c) the de-industrialized neoliberal west has overextended itself in the post covid years to an unsustainable degree. At this rate, the west will be ripped apart by internal forces faster than external ones.
I don’t know why you think Russia should be trusted to launch no more invasions of Europe. When they were building up forces on the borders of Ukraine in 2021/2022, they said they weren’t about to launch a new invasion of Ukraine. But they did just that.
Next time it might be another former-USSR country, like one of the Baltics. The UK is of course obliged by its NATO membership to help the Baltics if they are invaded.
The idea that we should just trust Putin’s government to stay away from Europe seems pretty crazy, given their actual behaviour.
Also you mention “the encroachment of western military infrastructure into easily penetrable borders” as if that’s a legitimate excuse for Russia’s invasions of Ukraine and Georgia. I don’t think it is. Ukraine and Georgia shouldn’t have been invaded.