From the day Britain left the EU, this reset was inevitable. What a pointless waste of time, money and effort | Simon Jenkins
www.theguardian.com
Keir Starmer is not blameless when it comes to Brexit, but he is moving in the right direction. Even the Tories attacking him know that, says Guardian columnist Simon Jenkins

Do you agree that Brexit has been “a pointless waste of time, money and effort”?

  • @mannycalavera@feddit.uk
    0•25 days ago

    In this thread

    but I hope we can talk about it in good faith and not fall back into entrenched views as has often happened in the past.

    Also in this thread

    I wish you’d fucked off somewhere else instead of voting for Brexit

    😢

    • ElcaineVolta
      1•25 days ago

      just because someone advocates harmful policies in a polite way, doesn’t mean they aren’t an advocate for harm.

      • @mannycalavera@feddit.uk
        0•25 days ago

        That’s the point of civil debates. To discuss and challenge the ideas in order to reach a better understanding. If you’re simply going to tell people to “fuck right off” without addressing their concerns it shows a deep lack of understanding of their concerns and only helps to push them further away from your own position.

        What advantage do you get from insulting someone? Whilst I don’t agree with the original post, I don’t want to excuse this behaviour of the reply.

        • Horse {they/them}English
          1•25 days ago

          If you’re simply going to tell people to “fuck right off” without addressing their concerns it shows a deep lack of understanding of their concerns

          no it doesn’t, people can have “concerns” that are fundamentally incorrect or in bad faith

        • ElcaineVolta
          1•25 days ago

          I’m saying its perfectly reasonable for some to meet one insult with another, just because you don’t see the first insult doesn’t mean its not there or that its anyone else’s obligation to spell things out for you. also, sorry, but “pushing people away from a position” is preposterous. this “look how you made me vote!” stuff is so childish.

          • @mannycalavera@feddit.uk
            0•25 days ago

            Where was the insult in OP’s post?

            I only saw OP putting their points across quite peacefully and then out of nowhere

            I wish you’d fucked off somewhere else