Cancelling a pre-loaded pride event because you’re scared of right wing nutcases being mean to your playerbase is the very definition of letting the terrorists win.
Pride month celebrations were my go-to events in secret. My family doesn’t really understand the niche appeal of the game, and state religious agents can’t really “disguise themselves” ingame. But if Jagex is veering right, they might (like twitter) sell my information to security agencies the same way the Sauds/Turks did to Twitter a few years ago.
At least I get to wear my pride cape 24/7 until my membership runs out. In hindsight, It was a bad idea to assume that shooting stars/maple forestry/w301 hate chats were “isolated incidents”. They’re clearly part of an ongoing trend that has the CEO’s approval. Oh well, there’s always a countdown to good things. I should enjoy it while it lasts.
consider private servers. idk if they’re less reactionary though because I haven’t tried them
Not everything has to be shit at all times. We could make a world where good things are, like, normal.
Anti-woke go broke.
Go fasch, lose cash
Not woke? Go broke.
Throw rocks at fascists. Okay the rhyme needs some work
Smite the Reich?
Strike the Reich.
Taste the rich, om nom nom.
Go woke or go broke.
Please please please email support.
The mod team is not happy about this either, and was responsive to me. Enough voices can change things.
If you haven’t play RuneScape - this has been a popular event for years. It’s always high quality fun. There have been stupid Fally protests and chuds but the events have always been really delightful.
Nice use of “gormless” 👏
This is extra funny because the first time a pride event was added people were protesting and spamming “we pay no gay” seems the culture has shifted.
I think it’s that the world has changed into having fractured multiple cultures.
In the 80s/90s being gay was considered by general society to be an insult. If you’re under 25, the concept of something being negative being called “gay” as the standard insult just sounds made up.
But people who are 40 years old may remember being in school, and you got a D on a quiz. Your buddy might say “You got a D? That’s gay.”
Had nothing to do with actual homosexuality. It’s just that’s what society was. Being gay wasn’t accepted, and it was cool and trendy to hate on gays to the point that it wasn’t questioned if you called anything bad “gay”.
It’s impossible to place an exact date on when the culture changed, because it likely changed at different times for different regions. I assume California was the first to change.
I first noticed the shift in pop culture around 2003. There was a russian pop singer duo/band called tatu. Terrible music, but they kissed in their one hit wonder music video.
The reactions I saw on MTV were people saying they were brave for being openly gay. Whereas if it would have happened in the 80s, I’m sure they’d have gotten death threats.
And I STILL see people who don’t accept gay people.
So society is now fractured on what popular belief is. Now it’s more like several circles, who all have different views. As opposed to one giant unified viewpoint, with those not conforming left on the outside in the underground.
Because that’s just one topic. There’s other people who are ok with gay people, but not ok with trans. So thats another circle. Now imagine every single viewpoint which has a counter viewpoint.
Whereas in the 80s, something like 92% of the vote went towards reagan, and everybody conformed to the preapproved normal viewpoints. We don’t do that anymore. We each find our own meaning of normal.
Now me personally, I don’t find giving a nazi salute to be normal. But you’ll still find herds of people defending musk. You’ll also find people like me who say fuck musk, and fuck any self identifying nazi. So, another example of how different people are now in different circles.
Yeah, 43 here, went to school with a kid who’s parents must have been from the 19th century, and named him Gaylord. Holy shit, I left that school after middle school, but I would honestly not be surprised if he killed himself.
Holy shit…being named “Gaylord” in the 80s/90s as a kid?
Fuck.
R.I.P. Gaylord.
May your bullying been short and merciful.
he tried to go by his middle name, but was only able to convince a small number of people to call him that.
…part of me wants to know the middle name. Part of me wonders if that might be doxxing him at that point.
Because middle names are weird, but with a name like Gaylord, he doesn’t have much to risk.
He might be like “Call me Olive!”
And it’s somehow better than being Gaylord in the 80s/90s.
I think I’d just create a persona. Thats what a kid at my school did. His name was Adam, but he was like “Call me, The Jew!”
Not “Jew”, not “The Jew Kid” he specifically called himself “The Jew”. Pro wrestling was popular, and it was like how there was “The Rock”. Except he was “The Jew”.
Then one kid thought it would be funny to come in with a red armband with swastika on it. He asked The Jew if he thought it was funny. And The Jew said no…with his fist. Over and over and over and over. Usually school fights had an honor to them. Kid falls down, you won the fight. You walk away. Anyone tried contining the fight on a downed opponent, and the whole crowd would step in. They’d end the fight for you, and it wouldn’t be good for you.
That didn’t happen here. This kid went down, and The Jew just kept punching him. Over and over and over. For what seemed like forever. Nobody stepped in. Usually during fights, the crowd was rowdy. It was exciting. This was dead silent.
In normal times, The Jew was the most chill laid back easy to get along with guy. It’s 20+ years since I saw him last, and I still remember him and refer to him as that. By his request. So you can kind of get an idea of how he didn’t let things get to him. No ego. Just a good kid really.
When he saw that swastika, he just went off. And everybody had the same silent collective thought. Not to step in, and when teachers get here, we all stand behind The Jew. And we all did. Literally 30 kids all got detention for a month, because not one of us ratted out who beat the fuck out of gary. Eventually the teachers pieced together what happened, when gary came out of the hospital and was able to talk again. We still had to serve detention. Even after they “knew”, we still didn’t talk.
And now, I’ve gotten so sidetracked that I don’t even remember the point of this story. Other than to say fuck nazis. Fuck gary. And fuck anyone who owns a swastika armband. Gary had it coming.
His middle name was normal, I honestly don’t remember exactly what it was, because we barely ever spoke to each other. The only reason I knew the kid even existed was because his name was Gaylord. Jacob, maybe? Something like that.
I assume California was the first to change
Nope, that designation goes to Massachusetts. First gay marriages occurred in 2004 and never had a prop 8 pass as late as 2008. California was a red state, redder than Florida is now, until very recently. California is a relatively recent leftward shift.
The meaning of the word Gay has shifted a lot in different directions over the decades. Way, way back “gay” had the meaning of joyful and fun, without any form of connotation to sexuality. Just as a addition to your text, please don’t read it in any kind of negative meaning.
I will not accept All the Things She Said slander
tatu was a masterclass in queerbaiting
Society is always fractured in a shift of values. More extreme examples are women rights and christ/islamic values vs. secularism.
I first noticed the shift in pop culture around 2003. There was a russian pop singer duo/band called tatu. Terrible music, but they kissed in their one hit wonder music video.
Unrelated rant following:
Back in around 2002-2003 as I started becoming cognitive enough to appreciate different artists and styles, I didn’t have Internet at home (Eastern Europe yay), but we had a couple of non-local TV channels somehow. One being VIVA (the German channel, not the UK one), which at some time of day just played the week’s top 100 hits for Germany, many of which were one hit wonders. Tatu was one of them, though they were more of a 1.5 hit wonder (they’re not gonna get us was half a hit compared to the big one).
This was wonderful, because it got me hearing all kinds of music as a 7 year old that I normally wouldn’t have. Where the hell else was I going to hear The Rasmus - In The Shadows, a bunch of songs by Eminem, and then suddenly Las Ketchup Song? Or for something way less commonly known: Travel Time by Starsplash
Of course there’s always being Nazi apologists and equally there’s always been people who are just incapable of moving with the times. That’s not a new thing that’s always been the case.
Wow, the way he phrased his reasoning is so undoubtedly cowardly too. He didn’t even try to hide the fact that it’s performative as fuck lol.
rs has been declining quite a while, especially since they have significant periods of content droughts. getting gutted by PE firms isnt helping it.
The player base has been steadily increasing for years on the old school side whereas the RS3 has been slowly dying.
https://www.misplaceditems.com/rs_tools/graph/?display=avg&interval=week&total=1
I am curious how much of their revenue is propped up by whales on the RS3 side
In my opinion companies shouldn’t do anything about any month of anything. They often use it as a marketing tactic
I used to believe that too, because it was pointless. But it seems that i was wrong. The fact that it was pointless, means that the corporations felt comfortable with using and abusing that to maximize profit. The fact that they are afraid to do that, indicates how fucked things are now.
So i am ok with corporations using movements for marketing reasons, because ultimately this is the canary in the mine. If the corporations consider it a brand risk, then society is moving towards the wrong direction.
I’m not comfortable with companies using any kind of marketing tactics. Because 99 times out of a 100 it’s speedy and underhanded.
But since they’re going to be doing it anyways, doing it with pride, or disenfranchised demographics, at least normalizes their humanity. Which, at the end of the day, is the point of pride month et al.
Take it easy there, Chicken Little. “I’m uncomfortable with any kind of marketing” is so hyperbolic, it’s almost parody. Putting the name of your business above the door? Thats marketing. Creating a website where customers can find and engage your services? That’s marketing. A minority-owned business proudly owning that status? That’s marketing. A friend telling you about the great meal they had the other day from a local restaurant? Believe it or not, that’s marketing.
Marketing is not evil in and of itself. Unless humanity returns to a tribal social structure where you can count the number of non-related acquaintances you know on your fingers, it is a necessary component of operating a business. Of course, you’re 100% right that there have been dubious applications of the principle, but again, you’re throwing the baby out with the bath water, and it hampers the salient point that you’re trying to make.
Sure, if you only take it at it’s most extreme and dont use a little bit of critical thinking. I specifically referenced companies in a thread about large corporations manipulating social issues for their own gain. I also gave wiggle room with the 99 out of a 100 reference.
I think you also cast far too wide a net with your definitions of marketing, especially in the context of the conversation happening.
I’d check your own sky to be absolutely sure it’s falling before throwing aspersions like that around. You may have a hysterical over-exaggeration of your own there.
Dis u?
I’m not comfortable with companies using any kind of marketing tactics.
Now, I felt like I was fairly gentle in pointing out the absurd nature of that statement. I even readily acknowledged what I assumed to be your intent, i.e. there are absolutely marketing tactics which go beyond the pale. But, as I, and others, have pointed out, you’re the one operating on your own personal definition of marketing here, which is in contradiction to what that concept actually is. Any intro to business class will tell you that marketing is, essentially, ANYTHING an entity does to inform people of its services. It’s an enormous umbrella, which includes tactics both odious and innocuous. It is as readily applicable to the gal who posts on Facebook that she’ll do your hair for $20 as it is Facebook selling that information to a third party so she can be served targeted salon equipment advertisements.
All I’m saying is, if you say “all marketing is bad”, you need to be prepared for people to call you out on the hyperbole of that statement. Therefore, you might consider arguing the point you actually intend to make (which is good and I agree with you about!), instead of leading with a statement which you don’t actually believe.
Calling you Chicken Little was facetious, but meant to be a gentle dig at the hyperbole. Still, I shouldn’t have said it, and I apologize.
Seems a little overboard for some kind of friendly conversation, especially when it had nothing to do with my general point. I was just stating that I wasn’t comfortable with marketing in general. The implication being from large corporations.
As I’ve never taken an intro to business course, as I’m not interested in that aspect of hyper-capitalism that entails, I just go on the general context of the thread and general sentiment. Not a super-literal definition given in your community college.
The hyperbole seems to be all yours, you’ve taken a statement I used to lead into the general topic of my comment and somehow built an entire personality out of to assign to me.
I’m not comfortable with marketing. That is my personal opinion. I know lots of other people have other opinions. Some people are neutral, they don’t give a shit. Others seem to think of it as completely and utterly necessary in every degree of society. They’re allowed that, I have no power nor will to take that from them.
using any kind of marketing tactics
So there shouldn’t be a poster on a wooden pole for a new corner store? How about fancy signs? No happy hours either?
I’m perfectly fine without those, yeah. Though you seem to be taking my meaning to a more extreme degree than was inferred.
If you mean this about any Christmas, seasonal, 4th of July, Halloween, Easter, etc events… sure. But taking out just the Pride event is targeted.
Probably why the comment you replied to didn’t say that at all.
Some what of a tangent on Christmas is that there is the “War on Christmas” narrative. I am always curious about what it is supposed to mean. The Christians that are into it often take capitalism to be good as an axiom the way they do their own faith. Which is at odds with their culture war as capitalist firms are what drive the secularization of Christmas. Would a commercial with Jesus on the cross saying he is thirsty and having a Roman Soldier pass him an ice cold Coca Cola be better?
Would a commercial with Jesus on the cross saying he is thirsty and having a Roman Soldier pass him an ice cold Coca Cola be better?
Yes. PLEASE put this on the air. I am begging someone to make this a reality. Also, full disclosure, I do enjoy watching the world burn over stupid shit. Christians losing their shit over THAT commercial would be comically delightful.
Oddly I don’t think Christians would even be upset about that. You could have it directed by Mel Gibson. They would love it. Because it features their guy. Other than that, there’s no real concept of some sacred image or respectfulness.
It would work with Moses too. Replacement his sandals with some Nikes before he goes out for his walk in the desert. He’s still their guy too, since they have the Old Testament.
But try that with Mohammed or Vishnu, and there’s your war on Christmas.
Would a commercial with Jesus on the cross saying he is thirsty and having a Roman Soldier pass him an ice cold Coca Cola be better?
I tried it using Sora, but “This content can’t be shown for now. We’re still developing how we evaluate which content conflicts with our policies. Think we got it wrong? Let us know.”
This was the prompt:
Give me a Coca Cola commercial where Jesus has been nailed to a cross, and says “I’m thirsty”, after which a Roman Soldier passes him an ice cold Coca Cola.
I tried replacing “Jesus” with a man, but no dice :(
it would be PONTIUS passing him the soda.
Where I am from several years ago the city renamed the Christmas Parade to Holiday Parade in a bid to be inclusive of other winter holidays. A small subset of citizens got butt hurt and have held a competing Christmas Parade several times.
Apparently the war on Christmas is acknowledging that there are other options.
Its a tradeoff, we know they only do things for the bottom line but having pridr celebrations did reinforce exactly what the pride movement wanted to push. My work isnt that bad tbh they have a committee that runs talks and discussions on equity and exclusion and the likes. The committee likely doesnt cost much, but they get to champion it and the people in that community feel welcomed and it does help breakdown barriers.
My work turns pride month/mens mental health month into (we want to sell 3500 cars this month and also donate a few dollars to make a wish)
Better than nothing I guess. But still kinda shitty.
Half agree. Even if many of them are just money-hungry, there is still a ton of non-fiscal value in making it clear that queerness is not a shameful anomaly and can instead be a point of both strength and pride. Lots of kids out there are stuck in families that want them to believe the exact opposite, when they genuinely need to know that the world has more to offer than just that.
I don’t appreciate companies trying to capitalize on this, but as a friend and sibling to many queer folk (and as well as being a bit fruity myself, even if not fully this or that), I think this visibility is currently very necessary and possibly even life saving for some severely stuck folks. Even if the motivation is obviously crook, I can get behind giving those people the inspiration they need to accept and understand themselves in spite of those who would rather see them hating themselves or worse.
RuneScape regularly does holiday events. Theyve done it for Christmas and Halloween as far back as RS1 - like, the Christmas hats are the iconic RuneScape thing. People have paid obscene amounts of real money for them.
The Pride event was no different. You get fun little items for completing a silly little quest. It’s not even like mega “gay”, it’s just cute and inclusive.
First time I played RuneScape was this year. The Easter stuff was fun to do.
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Santa’s Red suit was a staple, at least in American advertising, for decades before coca cola did it
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Never be fooled into believing that corporations are your friend. They are always just looking to chase profits.
But if corporations believe that Pride is profitable, that is a sign that society is headed in the right direction. Whereas if they turn around because Pride is no longer profitable, that is a cause for worry.
Can something be good and also a marketing tactic?
Not while racism and sexism exists unfortunately
Just look at bud light
I’m trying to understand your point, but I’m a little lost here.
Do you mean the way the public reacted to their ad?
Or the way they capitulated to that reaction?
I mean: Yes racism and sexism are pervasive in our society, but using Ben and Jerry’s (operating under the same racism/sexism) as an example; they do heavy marketing tactics toward LGBTQ but they are also an ally.
Does them utilizing that make them bad?
Well, the example of bud light is they made their can rainbow color, while the LGBT community was like “hell yeah!” They lost almost all their hillbilly south customer base.
It’s a bit of a catch-22. As much as companies would want to, they have to maintain customer loyalty, or they risk losing money.
Canceled Pride? Well, I canceled my sub!
Another instance of Jagex being fucked. The cycle continues.
Hell yeah
There is a player run unofficial pride house party happening on the 21st
CEO seems like an idiot and/or coward.
If I ran a business, I wouldn’t engage in any political events whatsoever. I don’t think businesses should, quite frankly. Be politically neutral. I don’t believe doing so “supports the status quo,” and thereby oppresses people “de facto,” that’s just pressure from activists to support them. You support gay people on your service by letting them play and putting down any instances of anti-gay rhetoric on your platform. Simple as that.
Calling pride month a political event is one of the most wildly bigoted takes I’ve ever heard.
Pride is a political movement - or did they not fight for the rights of LGBT people? Flags are inherently political. Flying a flag signals allegiance and identity, which are political at their core.
This makes pride month political.
Being Lesbian/Gay/Bi/Transgender isn’t political in and of itself, but movements are.
Everything is political if you really get down to it.
While that is true, “political” has been co-opted to dismiss legit issues so those in, ya’ know, politics can ignore the people. It’s really frustrating.
When being from the lgbtq community means that you are persecuted, punished and your life is threatened, doesn’t it mean it is political? why do you say it is not political? Or is that about fighting for survival? Is fighting for survival political? Does it even matter? You don’t specify it in your comment, are you supporting the other comments that because it is political companies should stay away from it?
When laws and states and governments try to push too far to limit things such as gender identities the lives of many become political as they are threatened by the laws, states, and governments. And yet, the rights and survival of people in peace is not truly political. That’s just the excuse used to try and censor the discussion of such topics.
No, it’s definitely political. So was the Civil Rights movement in the US. So was Womens’ suffrage.
Pushing for change is political, even if it’s nearly universally agreed that the particular change is necessary and good. I agree with LGBT rights and as far as I care, they can have a month long pride if they want, it doesn’t in any way chafe my willy. However, I agree with the person you replied to. As a business, ANY stance on ANY political cause risks alienation of some part of your customer base. Doing a 180 on your stance like Jagex did is of course the worst thing you can do, because then you alienate the people who agreed with you, but the others will still remember when you disagreed with them. Once they decided to do pride, they should’ve fucking stuck to it, at least for the year where they already had events scheduled!
If I ran a public-facing business at all, it would have literally no political allegiance or opinions. No stance on LGBT rights, no political donations (not really a huge thing in my country anyway), etc. Just do my thing, provide a great service, make sure my employees and customers are happy, and… The LGBT folks can do whatever they want, I’m just not voicing support for them as a business. Even if I as a person root for equal rights, I just don’t want to take a stance as a business owner. Donations to charities, including LGBT charities, are fine - I just don’t want it to be particularly public. But then I just prefer privacy in these kinds of matters.
Doing something political for years and then NOT doing something political is not “politically neutral,” you’re actively decided to make a politically motivated decision instead of simply continue with existing behavior.
Pride movement is as political as Christmas is political. There will be people that make it a political issue, but that doesn’t mean it is actually political. A company that celebrates a holiday that big part of the population celebrate is not siding with a political party or even with a religion. The rights for any minorities in a government or a state is political, but pride is a celebration and as such it is not political. A state making a religion official and forced/encouraged is political. Celebrating Christmas is not political. And celebrating Christmas as a company doesn’t mean they alienate customers or employees that don’t actually follow the religious side of the holiday.
Don’t get sucked into the idea that a company cannot show support for minorities or make events depending on the celebrations socially occurring because you need to be neutral. That’s not neutrality, that’s self censorship.
To take it to the extremes, are we expecting companies to say they are not against slavery but also not in favor, because it is political? Child labour is bad, but I don’t want to support any side because it is too political. Terrorism attacks? Well we don’t have a stance against or for them, it’s just too political.
There’s a big difference between siding with one party or another and not showing a stance into what should be universal human rights. Are universal human rights political? Well kinda, but we shouldn’t support, or allow any company that is afraid of supporting human rights because it might alienate some customers… Pride and lgbtq rights might not be on the same level as slavery, terrorism and child labor but hell who someone spends their life with is a human right and has nothing to do with politics.
You have different definitions of “political”
In my country at least, there are differences of opinion about whether queer people can exist in public, use the bathroom, etc., and the people in power are endangering everyone. So pride is very much political.
The fact that business engage in Christmas celebrations instead of, say, Ramadan, is itself a political decision - it places value on Christmas over the celebrations of other religions.
I’m not saying there shouldn’t be Christmas events in games - quite contrary, I think having as many events from as many cultures would be a smart business decision and it would make a larger number of players happy. But the fact is it would be a double standard to be fine with that and not with Pride.
Christmas celebrations
Christmas is more of a cultural celebration than a Christian one, and thus not political.
I’m atheist, but I still celebrate Christmas, because it’s a good excuse to gather friends and family, and have some fun together.
Christians having the right to celebrate Christmas is political believe it or not.
I’m not saying it isn’t - but so is Pride. Why would you place a subculture celebration - Christmas (since not everyone celebrates), over another subculture’s celebration - Pride (which also isn’t celebrated by everyone)
I don’t see why we can’t have both. Just ignore the one you don’t like and let others have their fun too
Pride is political now?
🤡
Yes
Always has been
I think its easy and smart to make political decisions as a business, it simply has to come from a place of pure empathy for real people who actually exist.
Do you also support gay people on your service by letting them organize and run a gay pride event on your service? Or is having to witness people celebrating gay pride too much for your delicate sensibilities?
Not the person you replied to, but agree with them to some degree, at least on the fact that any strong political stances are dangerous for a business.
If I ran a service and gay people are celebrating pride on it, that’s none of my business and they can keep on doing whatever they want. Similarly, if conservatives want to throw a straight party without outright saying gay people deserve fewer rights, it’s fucking weird, but it’s their business. The moment anyone advocates for harming someone else, THAT’s when it becomes a problem for me. Goal of a business, in my opinion, is to serve as many people as possible.
I just wouldn’t want to voice support for, or against, anyone’s rights, as a business. It’s horrible that LGBT rights are a politicized issue, sure. But if I ran a business, and there are 30% otherwise quite well-behaved customers who would drop my business because I changed my logo to a rainbow colored one… I just don’t see myself doing that. If I’m providing a service at the best price/quality ratio, it would just mean they drop me to go pay a homophobic business owner even more money for the same service. Does that actually benefit anyone, other than the hypothetical homophobic business owner?
But the worst, most cowardly thing, is supporting LGBT rights and then WITHDRAWING that support. If you’re political already, fucking stick to your beliefs. Don’t abandon them the second the political landscape starts changing.
I think your last paragraph encompasses the essence of what people hate about this decision. I haven’t seen any outrage at companies that have never celebrated Pride. On the other hand, having celebrated it before and then deciding not to - especially when the event was ready to go and just needed approval - well, imo that’s even more of a politically motivated decision than simply having Pride
If I ran a business, I wouldn’t engage in any political events whatsoever.
So you won’t have holidays, period.
Yeah people don’t want politics in their escapism. Makes sense to me
Refusing to acknowledge that queer people exist is “political” and queer people engaging in escapism deserve to feel seem and included.
You shouldn’t have to do the event to get the special item and emote then
Fantasy is filled to the brim with politics.
