- cross-posted to:
- exchristian@lemmy.one
- cross-posted to:
- exchristian@lemmy.one
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Remember the time he had to have everyone paint blood on their doors so he knew which babies to kill.
Front page news story today about an 8 year old boy with a brain tumour suffering from partial paralysis and seizures.
Thanks God.
You’re welcome buddy.
Sorry, He is too busy helping athletes win in sports to care about some tiny little conflict.
Available options include:
- Believing in an evil god.
- Not believing in anything beyond physical reality.
- Not paying attention to reality and believing whatever delusion you feel like.
Most people choose option 3.
Those really aren’t the only options.
For example, it disregards the theology of a naturally occurring physical reality born out of entropy which eventually creates a god-like being which recreates the pre-god universe in order to resurrect it non-physically (a minor theology from around the first to fourth centuries CE).
A more modern version of a similar paradigm is simulation theory.
There’s a pretty wide array of options out there, it’s just that the most common tend to effectively fall into your groupings.
Sounds like variations on ‘Not paying attention to reality and believing whatever delusion you feel like.’
None of these have any bearing on or foundation in actual physical existence. They do nothing to describe or predict. There is nothing to them. They just fulfill some desire in the believer.
For example, it disregards the theology of a naturally occurring physical reality born out of entropy which eventually creates a god-like being which recreates the pre-god universe in order to resurrect it non-physically (a minor theology from around the first to fourth centuries CE).
Removed by mod
Sounds like you’re saying that children dying is the good ending…? And, that Hitler being forced to hide and shoot himself in a bunker while his evil empire was ripped to shreds was getting away with it unless someone believes in your version of god?
So, you’re clearly in some demented version of option 3, the most common option, as I outlined.
Maybe option 1 with the whole child death thing though, idk…Removed by mod
You’ve never faced down your own mortality or been in a seriously dark place, have you? I have. I don’t care how bad Hitler was, it’s not a pleasant feeling to contemplate ending things. It’s painful. It’s a position that you are put in by pain. I have enough empathy to realize that.
But more importantly, I’m not super fixated on punishment in general. I think that Hitler was obviously a horribly bad person, and that by him ending things he could no longer cause harm.That people who believe in some god or other seem hyper fixated on retribution is not something in your favor. It does not paint your or your god in a good light. Good would be preventing bad things from happening in the first place.
Similarly, with regards to children, it is better not to have them if you can’t even make a reasonably successful effort to provide them with a more hopeful and better world full of greater opportunity and wonder and joy. That is the merciful route.
Not having children is merciful. Wishing children die before puberty is monstrous. You argue to create pain in innocents.
You religious people with your notions of duty and retribution, pain and punishment are not painting a world or paradigm created by any kind of good entity.
You come into an atheism community and act all high and mighty as if you have something to impart to US?
It’s laughable. You have nothing but unfounded trash. You don’t come here to convince us. Be honest with yourself for one goddamned second. You come here to try and firm up the non-existent foundations of your faltering faith.
You have no proof or value to offer. Just gaping, naked need.
You’ve never faced down your own mortality or been in a seriously dark place, have you? I have.
I’m sorry you lived something which left that kind of mark on you. However my or your anecdotal experiences do not constitute an argument.
So basically what you are saying is you don’t care about justice?
Evil needs to exist for us to recognise good. How can you acknowledge that something is good if you are not able to fathom its absence?
Also you seem to subtract the human element in whatever bad things happen as an action of someone, acting upon his free will. If we as a species are allowed the freedom to decide, it means we can act in a good way or in a bad way. It is proof we have free will. If God only allowed good, it means we do not have free will.
Wishing children die before puberty is monstrous.
I never said I wished such thing. Don’t straw-man me.
You come into an atheism community and act all high and mighty as if you have something to impart to US?
I want to see you defend your point of view. I’m still waiting…
Many atheists I see online have been hurt by out just mock (sometimes rightfully) Christianity and then paint all religions with the same brush.
Often points are copied and shared around in such communities, like the problem of evil, without knowing that these points have been answered by scholars or philosophers.
If I’m being honest here, I don’t want you to argue out of ignorance and seek to open the door of the echo chamber to show you the other point of view so you can decide rationally.
You might think religious people (I’m talking about Islam) cannot defend their position, but it is the opposite actually with atheism.
Look things up, study, learn and make educated decisions. Don’t be afraid of your intellect.
No one in the real world cares about justice whether they’re religious or not. It’s always been a nebulous concept and one quickly rejected at the slightest hint of it being inconvenient to the rich or the community at large. No deity in ANY belief system changes that fact; if anything, they only highlight how illusory justice really is.
None of us atheists come to your mosques. Yet, you come in here with unprovable notions and demand others prove them wrong for you. I’m done going point for point with you and extended you far too much courtesy.
“Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence”
You have no evidence. And, absolutely nothing extraordinary.
The burden of proof lies on you. And, this is not the place for it it any case.
Yet, you come in here with unprovable notions and demand others prove them wrong for you
I never asked to disapprove my paradigm nor am I seeking to prove mine. I specifically challenged yours.
Without delving into the subcategories, basically agnostics say “we don’t know” when asked about the existence of God. They might not be convinced by the arguments for the existence of God but they do not take a position.
Atheists make the claim “there is no god”. So I agree that whoever makes a claim needs to back it, so I simply ask about the arguments for the position you say you take.
Btw I don’t shy away from giving the proofs for my position. In this discussion I was not asked why I believe God exists.
And the third option: to change humanity to make it more just, never occurs to you
Man, religious people are a trip
Ask any sufficiently religious Jew or Muslim, and they will tell you: this, what you are seeing right now, is the Lord almighty working in mysterious ways so that his will be done. If you persist: “so, raped women? Dead children? That’s the plan?”, sufficiently religious Jews will clutch their pearls and ask how dare you ask such a flippant question, and sufficiently religious Muslims will answer “yes” like that bearded guy in that meme.
Wasn’t New Testament (Jesus) the one that changed view to that God is all loving?
Same for Christians lol.
They go to haven, so what’s the big deal?
The Jews, the Muslims or all dogs?
That movie made an atheist when I was little. The nuns at my school said that dogs don’t go to heaven because they don’t have souls, and I thought that was bullshit.
Depends on region
point to the region on the doll sir
God is dead, Israel killed him
That implies that “God”, whatever that means, actually cares about hairless apes on a (quite likely) unremarkable rock.
We are not hairless tho
It’s always been innocent children’s lives. Cancer, sexual abuse, war crimes, starvation, the Church TM. It’s always been their lives and he’s never stepped in before. But maybe the land is more important to him. Oh wait… People have been fighting over it for thousands of years you say? Well then.
I mean he goes out of his way to murder kids so im sure he is happy
I’m functionally an atheist. I certainly have a disdain for religious orgs.
I’d accept the argument that this, in fact, a test. If so, religious people are failing it.
There is a novel, and damned if I can remember the title, where a rabi proposes that god commanding Abraham to kill his son was a test, which he (Abraham) failed.
If so, religious people are failing it.
How so?
I might have misunderstood your statement. If this life is a test and the eternal afterlife is what they seek, how are they failing it?
They don’t care about a finite 90-something year life and would give it away for an eternity which is incomparable.
The implication I’m making is that a moral deity that allows free will might allow bad things to happen as a test for people to act morally. Religion, instead has been at the root of problems and/or stood by while bad people do bad things.
I agree with the first part.
However, Religion is not a body in and of itself but we talk about people. I cannot and will never defend religious people wholesale because they are people and all people make mistakes. However to attribute mistakes to religion, one has to prove that said religion says to commit that mistake.
What I defend is religion, in this instance Islam, and would ask those who attribute a problem to it to provide first the evidence that it is indeed encouraging it.
In all fairness I would like to point out that statistics show that atheists were responsible for the most killings in human history.
“Why the goat buggering fuck are you fighting over the desert? I put green stuff everywhere for you to live in. What do you mean you chopped it down? Why are you digging that stuff up and burning it? I buried it for a reason! Fuck this, where’d I put that flood machine?”
Aliens land, give us free energy and split would do it. That would put the wrinkle on so many evils that are funded by energy and pollution.
I see Lemmy atheists haven’t moved beyond having cringe takes about middle eastern conflicts, Hitchens would be proud. This post is not only tone deaf but shows little understanding of the conflict.
Sorry, I’m not trying to be mean, but you don’t know much about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict if you think it’s about religion.
I’m pretty sure the animosity is about Israel colonizing the area as an ethnostate. The Palestinians have as much legitimacy to the land as they do, and yet they displaced them much the way European colonists displaced the first nations in the United States and Canada.
After WWII the international community was supposed to come to terms that every people, even the least liked displaced refugee deserved regard for their personhood and to be afforded basic civil rights.
Israel has repeatedly failed to get that memo, often relying on notions that Palestinians are religious enemies, condemning Palestinian peoples as the German Reich did the Jews.
But on the international stage money and the whimsies of plutocrats decide who has guns and power, and more of them like Israel over Palestine for now. (And it’s no small detail that Israel is more white-friendly than the rest of the middle east.) Principle will be nowhere to be found if ever attitudes towards Israel change.
And this explains the objectives of Hamas and Hezbollah in the Strip. They know the Israeli state is eager to storm Gaza and jackboot every civilian neck that crosses their path. The state just needed justification to take its mask of and express the brutality in wants to. The two fronts simply provided that excuse.
And despite warnings from the US about the shit show in Fallujah, they’re chomping at the bit for it. Moreover it’s going to be a mess that the world will get to see up close, with rogue cameras and drone footage showing the truth of urban massacres that might even outdo the holicaust in instilling in us a sickness for the ultraviolence.
Israel isn’t God’s chosen, and we’re about to see exacty how much they are shit-throwing apes just like every other sectarian identity. Just like the rest of us when we fail our own principles.
Maybe, we, as a species will get it this time, but we’ve shown to be daft before.
Stephen Fry was once asked what he would say if, after death, he found himself trying to justify himself to God in front of the Pearly Gates. His response:
“Bone cancer, in babies? Seriously?”
The full response is worth reading:
I’d say, bone cancer in children? What’s that about? Why should I respect a capricious, mean-minded, stupid God who creates a world that is so full of injustice and pain. That’s what I would say.
