I’m all for it.
No. Stop.
This is the definition of interrupting your enemy when they’re making a mistake.
Let them kill windows 10, I have atleast 5 friends ready to switch to linux when Windows 10 hits EOL.
As a gamer, proton/lutris still isn’t quite to the point that I am ready to make the jump. It’s very close though and I’m going to make the switch probably in the next 24 months.
Typically, imo, most people who aren’t ready to jump to Linux are there because their top couple of games are ruled by arrogant devs/publishers who balk at the idea of ticking an “enable proton compatibility” checkbox with their anticheat.
From what I’ve seen Proton has hit a quality of compatibility that the games will just run, and typically better than Windows. If it doesn’t run it’s usually because it’s too new and proton needs a patch, or the devs/publishers did the aforementioned “no, i won’t tick the checkbox, it’s too hard.” bullshit.
Basically, if your waiting on a game to be supported for proton, it may need to wait until Linux adoption hits around 20 percent before the devs/publishers get that bullshit idea out of their head.
For me it’s that a lot of the open source options to replace the Adobe and MS Office suites just always fall short. Trouble shooting Linux issues feels like hell after a lifetime of learning how to troubleshoot Windows issues.
Adobe is the bane of my existence for many reasons, and I jump ship wherever I can. But GIMP doesn’t really compare to Photoshop. Inkscape doesn’t work well against illustrator - the only open source artistic creation software I swear by is blender. Davinci resolve isnt bad compared to premier pro though - but not After Effects.
MS office isn’t great either (why does Ms word operate like it exists in a separate instance of reality that’s forever stuck in the 90s?!)
Microsoft captured the corporate world and compatibility with the off brand stuff is a huge issue
The one that got me recently when I tried Linux was mouse software. I couldn’t configure my mouse buttons even close to what I have on Windows (couldn’t use modifiers like shift or control on one mouse, to start), and it just felt bad.
What mouse? Logitech and Razer have alternative control panels for Linux that should allow this.
Try Krita. It’s pretty similar to photoshop. A few creature comforts will be lost, but not too many substantial things.
However, if you really use the curved text feature of photoshop a lot, you may miss that.
Oh nice, thanks for the suggestion I’ll try it out. I don’t use the curved text in photoshop, that’s usually done in illustrator in my workflow
“enable proton compatibility” checkbox with their anticheat.
Isn’t proton mainly a steam thing?
Because honestly, the reason I’m not jumping to linux, is all the heavily modded GOG stuff and nexus mod manager.
That and bad experiences in the past.
if your waiting on a game to be supported for proton, it may need to wait until Linux adoption hits around 20 percent before the devs/publishers get that bullshit idea out of their head.
So never.
Valve may be single handily driving better Linux adoption rates with Steam deck.
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2023/08/linux-surpasses-the-mac-among-steam-gamers/
And performance on Linux is outpacing Windows
17℅ advantage? Daaamn hope these aren’t anomalies, because like 2 years ago Wine performance only lagged behind like 5℅, and this sounds too good to be true for me.
I believe the biggest factor is Linux’s better resource management.
Its a combination of Vulkan and Valve paying devs to work on Proton.
Vulkan is a fantastic Graphics API. Vulkan is more optimized than DirectX, and it’s so much better than DirectX that the DXVK (DirectX to Vulkan) Wrapper that Proton implements makes games run better, despite the fact it’s running through an obfuscation.
You somehow used the care/of symbol (℅) instead of percent (%). Impressive!
Sounds like I’ll probably be ok then. I wait years to buy games on sale.
Are you kidding? I made the jump a month ago and get better performance across the board gaming with proton/lutris than I did with windows.
It’s not about performance but compatibility. Such as certain anti-cheat software in online games.
Some things just aren’t good enough yet.
Like VR compatibility and performance, particularly with nvidia and quest headsets.
Otherwise yeah, 99% of my games would run perfectly fine.
I have Linux on all my machines except one crappy old laptop that had Windows 10. When they EOL Win10, I’ll have to buy another one like that for those rare occasions when you need to run something that just won’t work in Linux.
Yeah but i still need something windows to stick in my vm.
Man, I’m just going to say it… I’m sick of all the Linux people saying it’s the solution to all problems in computing. Can we not talk about anything else here on Lemmy? This article is about Windows.
I mean, this is platform which runs on Linux and embodies the same spirit which drives Linux forward - the collaborative power of opensource software. Is shouldn’t come as a surprise that there’s a heavy skew of Linux and opensource enthusiasts here. If you’re sick of all the Linux talk here, feel free to move to a propriety forum, perhaps one with a red alien logo.
This article is about Windows.
The article is about Window 10 becoming EOL, and given how many people are put off by Windows 11, suggesting Linux as an alternative is a reasonable comment, IMO. Feel free to argue otherwise if you feel so strong against it.
100%. I’m very happy for the people in the Linux community who have collectively supported a free and open source operating system that is effectively as good or better than the two leading OSs with massive billion dollar corporations behind them. That’s unfathomably impressive, deserving of all this praise and, of course, should have wider adoption.
However
I’ve spent my entire life on Windows, my professional career on Mac OS, and the last dozen or so years with my phones running Android. I absolutely do not have the patience and free time to become fluent in another fucking operating system. And I’ve tried. On at least two occasions, I’ve attempted to run a media server on Linux. The experience was utterly fucking miserable and made me want to give up on technology and live in the woods. I have no doubt that I’d have a different outcome with better resources or more time to learn properly, but I’m done. Hopefully the successes of Linux drive change for the better in the other two. Linux doesn’t need 100% adoption to make an impact on the way Microsoft and Apple develop their own systems.
You do know that Android is Linux right?
There is a lot to unpack, but you know exactly what they meant. The operating system people refer to as Linux or GNU/Linux or whatever is not the same thing as Android; if, under the hood, it has an older version of the Linux kernel. There is no command line required on an android phone for one.
Although, you are technically correct. The best kind.
There is no command line required on an android phone for one.
Generally not required on modern desktop distros either, unless you want to tinker or have poorly supported hardware. Package management, including kernel updates, binary drivers, etc. can all be done in the GUI.
Then again, I spend most of my time in the terminal because I like it.
Then again, I spend most of my time in the terminal because I like it.
Same. And I spend more time setting things up then using them.
I’m sorry, absolutely off-topic question, but is your username ‘microwave’?
Yes, it is. I used some derivation of microwave a long time ago on some forum or another, but it’s a common word so I threw it in Google Translate and started using this one other places.
Sorry but the answer is Linux. It’s got great support for devices and is open source. If adobe and a few other companies would port their software for Linux there’d honestly be no reason to use Windows or Mac except for a few that prefer it.
If bsd was more popular than the answer would be that. We just need to have an open source OS as the norm
Mac is BSD
mac is bsd in the same way android is linux. while technically true, they both diverged a lot from their base and most functions are now provided by closed-source software…
Thanks for reaffirming what I said I guess
Photoshop alone is worth keeping a windows or OSX device around.
That’s an Adobe problem
If the audience moves to Linux then it will follow
That, and Gimp is quite a capable photo editing tool.
And there’s Krita.
😂😂😂
Gimp is not even in the same universe. There’s no comparison.
Gimp is not that good, and not even close to being a Photoshop replacement.
It’s not a perfect replacement, and I never claimed as such. But for most people’s needs, gimp is perfectly capable.
I don’t care who or where the problem or source is. I will buy the platform where Photoshop is used, and as a result it will likely inform every other decision about my daily driver. It’s really that simple.
Then why would Adobe ever move?
Why do they need to? To capture 3% of a market that hates proprietary anyway? Come on.
My point was that people saying “I’ll move when X moves” should just suck it up because X will move after they do
Just an FYI, Photoshop runs reasonably well under Wine now, if you follow this guide: https://github.com/LinSoftWin/Photoshop-CC2022-Linux
The boner people have on this platform for Linux is frightening. We get it. You use an obscure OS. Congrats.
I use it and I still hate how 90% of this website devolves into Linux discussions.
Well, someone could develop a new OS or a mainstream-friendly fork of Plan 9. The problem is literally over-reliance on privately-owned, proprietary software during an era where enshitification is the norm. GNU/Linux is the most mainstream-friendly OS that is not* proprietary.
*Some bits that are regularly used are obviously proprietary. See: RHEL
So brave
I’m strong on the Linux side and just swapped over my last PC from Windows. Long time it’s been needing it.
But I completely agree with you. 95% of consumers would most likely have difficulty just getting it installed. Basic usage, maybe a greater number could be fine using it but once something goes wrong, no one wants to use the terminal.
And this is also a Windows thread.
I remember Microsoft saying that Windows 10 would be the last version they would ever release and everything moving forward would just be iteration and improvement. Knew that was a lie immediately.
Microsoft never said that. Its a myth that refuses to die. A single developer on a conference mentioned something as a sidenote, the press misinterpreted it and the internet took it and ran with it.
Do you have a source for that? I’d love to read how that myth came about, I’m serious I’m not doubting you
It goes back to Jerry Nixon, a Microsoft developer that said 2015 on the Microsoft Ignite conference in Chicago
“Right now we’re releasing Windows 10, and because Windows 10 is the last version of Windows, we’re all still working on Windows 10.”
and talking about “Windows as a service” in the future. That started this rumour. And the press went like “MICROSOFT DECLARED!..”. Just that it never did.
What Microsoft later said was
“Recent comments at Ignite about Windows 10 are reflective of the way Windows will be delivered as a service bringing new innovations and updates in an ongoing manner, with continuous value for our consumer and business customers,” … “We aren’t speaking to future branding at this time, but customers can be confident Windows 10 will remain up-to-date and power a variety of devices from PCs to phones to Surface Hub to HoloLens and Xbox. We look forward to a long future of Windows innovations.”
There was never a single word explicit saying that Windows 10 will be the last. Only that the future may be “as a Service”.
Its hard to link a single source for all that, but e.g. Forbes covered it back then: https://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2015/05/08/microsoft-windows-10-last-windows/
Wow yeah I can clearly see how it happened now, their wording wasn’t the best and then news outlets did what they do best and now we’re here, thank you this was really nice to read and learn!! Have a great evening!
Windows 11 is just Windows 10 23H2. It’s just a number. Nothing stops MS from dropping support for older processor in an update for Windows 10.
Based on my conversations with my clients, it seems like the 2025 date is going to result in the greatest Linuxing of all time.
as an avid multi-decades linux desktop user who has worked at a company with people in it before, i believe there is no way in fuck that this is true.
Yeah, I work in industrial automation and I don’t see how it could be possible
I know right? I don’t even let Rockwell run in anything but a VM by itself after it wiped my C drive. Happened to some other people at last job too. I could explain it better, but it would be exhausting and stressful to go on another rant about their awful software.
I would love for Siemens and Rockwell software to work in Mac and Linux. Or half of the other random utilities for various hardware components. I just don’t see it happening. At least Ignition is agnostic.
Before my current job I was in a small business with no IT (I did all of the IT work, actually. Kinda poorly) and I could manage my laptop however I wanted, so I ran Linux with VMs for industrial IDEs, I mean you have to use VMs anyway, right? It fucking rocked. I don’t know if it was the laptop (XPS 15), or virtualbox, or Linux, but it was way snappier than my current setup (windows Zbook with VMware).
You’re right in that this isn’t true of your typical working folks who use Microsoft 365, Sharepoint, or specialized design software.
There are a lot of folks who just use their computer for a web browser. When you tell them that their hardware, some of which is as young as 2017, will lock them out of security updates in two years, they’re pretty receptive to alternatives like ChromeOS or Linux.
For some of the older population, the simplicity of such options is a huge perk.
The year of the Linux desktop is upon us. The prophecy has been foretold by the sages of the code. A new dawn is on the horizon. A new era of freedom an power approaches as more and more disks are cleansed by the mighty forces set free by Stallmann and Torvalds. No more shall the users be enslaved by proprietary software and restrictive licenses.
The Year of the Linux Desktop is upon us, and nothing can stop it.
Don’t really care. Once this PC can’t run Windows 10 anymore, it’s getting Mint.
I’ve recently come to realize all of the games I actually like to play, run just fine on Linux. YMMV, of course.
My next computer will be Mint and open source programs.
I’ve recently had to pretty much stop playing games due to repetitive stress injuries so that isn’t even relevant anymore. The only thing keeping me on Windows these days is 3ds Max.
No, Blender is not an alternative for what I do, don’t even start.
I know you said don’t even start, but I’m curious lol.
I’ve used blender a lot, I’ve never used 3DS Max though. What would you say are the biggest issues with Blender in your scenario?
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From a personal workflow perspective, modeling is slow as shit. Keep in mind that I have extensive experience with Max, Maya, C4D, Softimage (I go WAY back), Modo, Lightwave, and probably a dozen other packages. Nothing is as unintuitive as Blender. Except Lightwave, which is kind of an oddball in some ways but really fucking cool in others. Blender modes are wonky, selection is wonky, navigation, everything about it feels like it was developed by programmers with little to no input from artists. Because that’s the case. I’ve used Blender since back when it was the only free-ish thing in town (late 90’s/early 2000’s when NaN still owned it) and it has always been clunky as shit. Max has the fastest workflow for me so I use it whenever I have the choice. C4D is quite nice for certain things too. Blender is just never good.
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The interface is still NOT GOOD kaboom. A lot of things are buried and not in places that make sense. This is true of a LOT of software in this realm though, so I don’t harp on it too much but sometimes Blender’s way of doing things is not compatible with industry expectation. Again, this is usually minor shit but all of these minor things add up to clunk and jank.
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And the biggest one is compatibility. I haven’t done any freelance work for anyone that uses Blender. It’s always Max. “But you can just export…” SLAP You can’t use Max plugins in Blender, and the custom export tool for Random Company Engine is only available in Max because that’s what their internal artists use. This is quite common.
So yeah, not an option in multiple ways. Blender isn’t godawful anymore but it’s still not where it needs to be.
Yeah I do archviz and bim work and I’ve tried my hardest for years now to switch primarily to blender but even with all the plugins in the world I still can’t use it as a primary replacement. And don’t even get me started on some people’s insistence that FOSSCADs are anywhere near feature parity for any in depth workflow with autodesk’s suite.
I don’t use Windows/Mac over Linux because I love them, I use them because a computer is a toolkit and I need specific tools.
But… but… FreeCAD is just like Solidworks!
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Given the amount of progress on getting 3D games to work well under wine/proton lately, I wonder if it’s possible/practical to run 3ds Max under it yet? The only test results I can find for it are ancient.
Absofuckinglutely not unless your hobby is CBT via software. You don’t have time to fuck around with inane shit like running software on the wrong operating system when you’re working on a project, and who the hell actually wants to even bother with it when you’re not? Software like this uses so many different system hooks dating back so far that I don’t even know if Wine can handle the level of backwards compatibility Max would need.
Persistent rumor is that a lot of the core code is holdover from 3D Studio DOS days. That’s so fucking old even I haven’t used it.
As someone once told , windows 10 would be that last version of windows.(I like to keep it that way , at least for me😅).
That someone was Microsoft 😆.
My system significantly exceeds all the performance requirements for Win11, but it doesn’t have the Trusted Platform Module 2.0…and therefore cannot run Windows 11. It’s disappointing that my system can run circles around a lot of newer devices but can’t upgrade because it’s running on an older motherboard. It’s dumb that Microsoft made TPM 2.0 a deal-breaking requirement for Win11.
Apparently you can get around that with a registry hack that tells the installer the machine has it. Not that I’d want windows 11 anyway…
I’m curious what CPU you have that is on the supported list but doesn’t support TPM 2.0 in firmware. Or are you just assuming the CPU support list is decided by TPM 2.0 availability?
Because most of the CPU support list is actually about hardware-accelerated virtualization features like MBEC/GMET and the performance penalties of having to emulate them when not present – up to 40% performance loss using kernel virtualization without MBEC/GMET in particular.
assuming the CPU support list is decided by TPM 2.0 availability
This was me before I checked the compatibility app. Windows never bothered me with Windows11 update so I thought It didn’t have TPM2.0+. I got curious and used the compatibility checker.
The laptop had TPM 2.1, but CPU is not compatible. oh well…
Laptop. He has a laptop. But, even if he had a TPM on a higher end Intel 6th and 7th gen Core i7, Win11 still wouldn’t install without workaround.
6th and 7th gen have firmware based TPM that Intel calls PTT. (Though whether it’s available to configure in the BIOS depends on the manufacturer and sometimes the chipset.) But correct, it still needs a workaround because TPM isn’t really the (only) thing it’s checking for.
Their pals in the hardware industry say thanks for the ewaste.
You can just disable that requirement with Rufus
We had petitions for everything, Windows Phone, you name it a decade ago. That won’t do jack shit unless it somehow comes with some large sum of money (how much? who knows) for Microsoft or some bean counter decides “hmm, maybe the environment shouldn’t take another for the team” and gets the company to change course before they are canned.
In the meantime, let’s continue to plot our off-ramps.
I’ve been using Windows 11 for a while now and honestly I don’t understand the hate. Who needs personalized functionality? Who needs to be able to move their bar from screen to screen? I do. I’m moving to Linux.
I’m not buying another windows OS.
It’s a free upgrade
Nah, I’m sticking with Win10. I wish I could’ve stayed with Win7. I have a huge backlog of games that will play great on Win10. Enough to last me for years (thanks steam sales.) And to be honest, I didn’t pay anything for my current Win os. I’m just tired of Microsoft drastically changing the os when they shouldn’t.
It’s perfectly fine to stay, just saying you don’t have to buy it haha. I bypassed the CPU restrictions to upgrade to win 11 because it had updates that I genuinely wanted, like tabs in file explorer etc. It’s genuinely fine, as long as you move that damn taskbar to the left
Absolutely! I got the free upgrades to win 10 from 7 and all my win 7 were… cough free.
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Not supporting intel 7th gen and back seemed pretty strong handed, even now they’re still decent processors.
And I know there are work-arounds but not for the average consumer
Hopefully by 2025 gaming in Linux will be greatly improved even more. Until then I’ll keep using Windows 10 and I’ll start saving for an AMD card
I join you on this. Nvidia support in Linux is shitty. I kept getting crash with it and proton on GPU intensives games. And you see the games running on and flawlessly… I regret picking a Nvidia card.
I’ve been using Nvidia cards for decades. They work perfectly fine and I’m able to play without a hitch. Sorry to hear about your experience but it’s not the norm.
I also use Nvidia GPUs on Windows. The thing is that They tend to have driver issues on Linux.
I’m also very disappointed with the closed architecture of their software, their recent price hiking in Europe and the fact that they stop supporting older GPUs
TL’DR. I don’t have a bad experience on Windows. At the same time it’s hard to switch to Linux, they dont have open source drivers and they don’t have long term support for their products by turning them obsolete through software
Do you use a tower ? Maybe that the hybrid part (I mostly tried on différents laptop with primus) which never work for me. Or may be the games I play. I tried Warframe, star trek online and planetside2 and my computer freeze after some time. I tried to wait 30 minutes, nothing. I tried to get some dump, no errors… I dislike windows and I try to migrate regularly but I have to go back to windows.
Guessing amd has better Linux support? Been running Linux for a while on my laptop but my gaming rig has been a windows strong hold.
I was asking a genuine question not trolling, if it’s true I’ll get an AMD card next!
Never mind the millions of PCs that don’t want to downgrade to this garbage.
Trouble is, to upgrade I’d need to do a mobo upgrade, and I’m not doing another mobo upgrade any time soon.
Windows 10 wasn’t great compared to 7, but I bit the bullet on that one because security updates are essential these days, and my workplace is microsoft-centric.
Windows 10s death is going to force a lot of poorer folks to consider alternatives - and let’s be honest, it’s going to be Linux. The majority of hardware out there in the world can’t run 11, let alone a proposed 12.
Windows 10s death is going to force a lot of poorer folks to consider alternatives - and let’s be honest, it’s going to be Linux. The majority of hardware out there in the world can’t run 11, let alone a proposed 12.
For the more technically strong people, I can see that happening but I very much doubt the general public would do that. They probably don’t even know what Linux is.
Yeah less savvy people are going to do what they always do, just keep running their old system but now with even more vulnerabilities due to lack of security update availability.
My dad recently asked me to help with his laptop, which turned out to be running windows xp.
After a lot of hair pulliing I got it kind of working but am gonna give him an old windows 10 (upgraded from 7) laptop, but he’s probably going to be on that indefinitely.
We know how this is going to end up: many people with obsolete Windows 10 machines full of malware. Botnets are going to live it.
You make a good point - it wouldn’t be a landslide since Linux does form a comparatively small share of the market. However, with the hardware gating, might we not see more companies shifting, which could at least boost public knowledge of Linux?
The cost of switching over to Linux might be higher than simply getting newer hardware. Training people is pretty difficult lol
A nonprofit group has sent a petition to Microsoft, urging it to extend the end-of-support date for Windows 10 beyond 2025 to prevent “the junking” of millions of PCs.
“junking”. Install linux on it you mugs!
