By that you mean the illegal settlements in the West Bank, and not ‘The Jews must be driven to the sea’, right?
By that you mean the illegal settlements in the West Bank
This was the interpretation I upvoted for, so I hope it’s what was meant.
Oh sweet summer child.
They don’t need to be driven away, but the borders of Israel should be dissolved and all housing fairly redistributed.
Moderates could and do live side by side without issues.
The “issues” are all those extremists. You can’t reason with them and they won’t stop until they destroy you.
All those extremists that were voted into power, are cheered for by Palestinians, and represent Palestine in the media and in international relations?
At first I thought you were talking about Israel and its extremist government, not Palestine, where about 44% of the people are under 18. For additional info, the last election in Palestine was in 2006 and Hamas got 44.45% of the vote while Fatah got 41.43%.
Even Palestinians outside of Palestine celebrate when there is a successful attack of their leaders (which is currently Hamas) on civilians.
Additionally, Fatah is a hateful and extremist group as well. This is a recent quote of Fatah’s president Mahmoud Abbas:
“They say that Hitler killed the Jews for being Jews, and that Europe hated the Jews because they were Jews. No. It was clearly explained that they fought them because of their social role and not their religion,” Mr Abbas says at one point. Later, he specifies that he was referring to the role of Jews involving “usury, money and so on”.
Fatah is often seen as a type of counter to Hamas, less extremist and secular. But Fatah sprung from the Muslim Brotherhood, just like Hamas. They are the group behind the assassination of the Jordan Prime Minister and the murder on the 11 Israeli athletes in 1972 Olympics in Munich.
You mean like when Israelis egg on war crimes and reinforce it by voting in a far right-wing government and only move further and further to the right with each election? Again, I remind you that most Palestinians weren’t even old enough to vote in the last election held in 2006.
based AF
How is that supposed to work when Israel, among other things, allows pride parades and Palestine puts homosexual men into prison for 10 years?
It’s called laws sir. You write them and then people follow them. There are plenty of Palestinians that have immigrated to where I’m at and surprisingly I know of no decade long vigilante detentions. That’s part of the learning process. Everyone gets to learn acceptance, which I think is preferable to the current state of things.
I don’t know in what world you live but just put out laws and people will follow them doesn’t seem to be a success story when religious extremists are involved.
Ah, but that’s when other laws come into play. It’s a system. A system of laws. Look at America, nobody talks about it but Hillary Clinton didn’t used to be a fan of gay people, she got over it, along with a bunch of other boomers. That’s when the push for laws kicked in and more protections were afforded.
Israel and Palestine combined would be neither, it would be something new. You enshrine rights in your constitution and make it clear that nobody can deny anyone else those rights. Everyone has to give up a bit of what they thought was important, and those who can’t let go of their ultra nationalist vision or violence against gays can go sit in time out. They don’t get blown up, or shot or treated like animals. They just go get to think about it. OR they could leave and go places that are more in line with their whatever way of thinking. That’s compromise. Nobody gets everything they wanted but you get enough.
Also, apologies for the sir part. I hadn’t looked at your username and either way it was careless to possibly misgender you, even if it was meant in a joking way.
What people seem to not want to accept though, is, that as long as there are extremist groups peace won’t be achieved.
I am from Germany and I know peace and friendship can be achieved between the most unlikely groups. But you need to do something against the hatred on your own side. And I don’t see Palestine doing that. At all. The opposite really.
Liberal values tend to develop better in areas that aren’t war-torn. Also, Israel is substantially behind the Western world in queer acceptance, so let’s not act like they’re a shining beacon just because they’ve had a couple decades head start.
It’s for easy access
They can have Germany.
Germany was sadly not the only country which mass killed and exiled Jews. Perhaps, you know, read up about it?
Doesnt matter
Lmao crying about Palestine having land taken from them they never had in the first place and then coming up with this is peak satire
Palestinians weren’t living there for centuries before these European Jews came in? Oh right, I forgot, supposedly God is a divine real estate agent who promised these Europeans land in Palestine thousands of years in the future.
You mean like Jewa weren’t living there for millenia before these Muslim came in?
What the fuck is that argument.
No they weren’t. The Arab people lived there first. Proto-Jews moved there and left from there, they were nomadic, pulling ideas for their religion everywhere they went.
The Arab people continued to live there for 2 thousand more years until they were drove out by canaanites.
Many wars happen. Civil War 200 years after the Arabs were drove out established the site of Jerusalem as a Jewish kingdom. They write in thier books the land is promised to them. 3500 years of history erased.
Over the course of 1000 years. Roman’s take the land by force and rebuild. Christians take the land by force and rebuild. Persians take the land and rebuild. Then the Christians take it again.
Meanwhile the expelled Arab people have been developing thier own beliefs and formed Islam.
Around 600CE they rose from the desert and peacefully took Jerusalem(by all recorded accounts from Jews and Christians). Where they rebuilt holy sites for all 3 religions.
Soon after the crusades happened and there is much more change in hands of the land.
No, no, the west is never at fault. Sure, Germany killed six millions Jews, but it’s best that Britain divided up some foreign land and pushed the “problem” (that the anti-Semites in the west caused) onto other people while scolding them for not liking having their homes taken.
Jews settled there before the formation of Israel and the location was specifically favored by the Jews.
Yeah, Jews had lived there for a long time, then the zionist movement pushed for mass emigration to Palestine and that’s where problems arose.
Jews drove out the Arab who settled the land 3500 years before.
Palestenians just want to kill all the zionist jews so they dont have a home. Is that so hard of an ask?
Hamas, not Palestinians. And they want to kill all Israelis, not just Zionist Jews.
This was only 2 months before the hamas charter revision in May 2017. This is the same charter that says they need to jihad against the jews until judgment day.
I don’t think they want to kill Arab-Israelis. Everyone else, sure.
Even though, in 7-Oct-23 some Arab and Bedouin Israelis were killed too…
Fatma Alttalaqat, 35, a mother of nine children, was murdered by Hamas terrorists near Ofakim on October 7, 2023.
If the cartels took complete control of Mexico, stopped all elections, and then stated their goal was to kill all Americans; do you think that we might start patrolling our border a little harder and deliver Mexico a bit of freedom?
The current situation is an absolute disaster and a sad case for innocent civilians who couldn’t even vote out Hamas if they wanted to. But there is a reason that Israel is in the West Bank in the first place, there will never be peace in that region until Hamas is stripped of all power in Gaza. Israel is surrounded by religious extremists on all sides that would genocide them if given the chance.
.
The USAAF killed more japanese in one firebombing raid than both of their nukes did combined, so for me its weird that you point out the use of nukes as something terrible when they were regularly doing worse.
I guess because it’s something that can’t be immediately pointed out as something others did too.
Probably because the Japanese were already in the process of negotiating surrender before any nukes were dropped.
If the cartels took complete control of Mexico
So, in this situation does Mexico still have an economy? I assume tourism has stopped, but are they still a petroleum exporter? Do they still make cars and trucks for export? Do they still grow Avocados and sell them to the US? Because the Palestinians in Gaza don’t really have an economy to speak of, so unless you first reduce Mexico’s economy to something barely self-sustaining, it really isn’t a fair comparison.
then stated their goal was to kill all Americans
Not much of a cartel if they’re killing their best customers.
we might start patrolling our border a little harder
See, that’s a key difference. Nobody’s saying that Israel shouldn’t patrol their own border. What’s a bigger issue is that they’re patrolling the other borders too. Israel is in a position to cut Gaza off completely. Israel can completely shut off water, food, fuel and power to Gaza. Even before this conflict they shut off tourism and fishing.
In your scenario, imagine the US Navy had carrier strike groups in the Gulf of Mexico and along the Pacific coast, preventing even fishing boats from leaving the Mexican shores. Now imagine the Guatemala and Belize borders were closed too, so that the entire country of Mexico was essentially a prison. That’s the situation in Gaza.
Also, in your scenario, is the US government encouraging Americans to move to Mexico and set up little American compounds there, either by building their own houses or by kicking Mexicans out of theirs and moving in? When Americans go to Mexico and take over a Mexican house, are those Americans protected by the US military? And do they get the protection of US laws, as if the families still lived in the US?
there is a reason that Israel is in the West Bank in the first place
Yes, they have extremely unfriendly relationships with almost every neighbouring country, and they seized that territory after one of the many wars with those neighbours, and have continued to occupy it counter to international law. That, of course, leads to extremely unfriendly relationships with almost every neigbouring country, which leads to conflict, which leads to a need to try to control that territory.
there will never be peace in that region until Hamas is stripped of all power in Gaza
And Hamas (or a group like Hamas) will always be popular in Gaza until people in Gaza have a reason to stop hating Israel, which will only happen when Israel changes the way it treats them. But, Israel is unlikely to treat them better because they know that the people there support Hamas (or groups like Hamas) because of how Israel treats them.
Wait. How does Israel control the Gaza-Egypt border?
Egyptians are poor and Egypt’s aid is determined by how friendly they are with Israel.
This comment right here gives me hope for lemmy. First person I’ve seen who can think for himself here.
Objectively speaking, it doesn’t sound like lemmy is for you then.
It will be. It started as a leftist haven but that’s crumbling, too.
Let me improve your analogy.
Imagine if the Mexicans say that Mexicans and Natives Americans are the same (even though Mexico has so much European blood and influence) and started claiming the United States and Canada as their holy land. Then every powerful European country agrees with Mexico. The Americans and Canadians will then complain to the UN and the UN will reply “why haven’t you just repartitioned your land better with the Mexicans?”
No but that doesn’t follow the narrative. ITS LITERALKY GENOCIDE!!!
Fucking preach
Are the Arab nations that expelled the Jews in the 40s and told them to go to Israel, going to give them their homes and citizenship back?
Didn’t think so.
Europe is not Arab nations.
Palestinians have been repeatedly kicked out of their homes for decades and decades ever since the late 40s, with their lands, homes and lives destroyed over and over again. An Israeli person born into the conflict who hasn’t actively supported ethnic cleansing isn’t guilty. This is a cursed problem because Palestinians deserve to have all the land back, but there are plenty of innocent Israelis who do not deserve to be robbed of their homes due to the crimes of previous generations.
Since Israel’s actions have made a 2-state solution impossible, the only potential just solution would be a single state where both Palestinians and Israelis are free and equal citizens, and Palestinians are paid reparations. This is currently impossible because both populations are immersed in a cycle of violence and desire for revenge. So we should, at the very moment, focus on solutions that seek to immediately stop the continued murders, and hope that this calms down the bloodlust as the months and years come by. I don’t see any way in which this is possible without the joint efforts of the historical allies of Israel and Hamas twisting their arms in order to prevent further abuse, and possibly establish a justice system that oversees and judges the crimes from actors of one side against the other.
I appreciate this comment. I have had a circular problem trying to determine a way out of the “both sides suck, but right now you suck more”. Now actually convincing the 2 populations this and getting the political will power to enact it is a whole other beast. But for the moment, this internet stranger is on board.
I don’t know, the more this goes on the more I can see The Onion Future Report being a possibility…
“Violence reamed the Gaza scrap today as fighting broke out between the one remaining Palestinian and the one remaining Israeli…”
And when you say Israelis should leave, you don’t mean Arab or Palestinian Israelis right? We know exactly which kind of Israeli you want specifically removed, the Jewish kind.
But even if we follow your argument, I’m native Mayan/pipil. I’ll support your idea that Israel return the land, once you fucking return mine and leave my continent.
Why am I guessing you’re white and blonde with 1/16th Mayan ancestry?
I’m brown, black hair, with 67% Aztec/Mayan ancestry and my mother was born in a village without electricity or running water, but sure, keep being racist
and my mother was born in a village without electricity or running water
What does that have to do with anything?
It paint the opposite picture of what the person they were replying to was alluding
What do Mayan ancestry and being raised in village without running have to do with each other?
Is everyone of Mayan descent raised in poverty? No? Then is why he pointing out that his mother was?
He’s just looking for pity points.
No, it shows that they’re not a privileged person cosplaying oppression.
What do privilege and oppression have to do with Mayan ancestry?
Are all people of Mayan ancestry unprivileged and oppressed? No? Then why bring it up?
Pity points 🙄
Not a goddamn thing. My mother was born in the woods, and I’m white as fuck.
On the plus side, with your parents directly related, the holiday planning is pretty easy to figure out
Cuz you’re an asshole?
Lmaooo blud’s never met the averaged mixed-race mexican apparently
And why exactly do you think present day ‘Mayans’ are so mixed?
They’re not? Based on a study of Guatemalan genetics,
It’s not being mixed what I’m talking about, I’m talking about being barely native and claiming to be one
Mixed is what you call “latinos”
Let me spell it out for you:
The Mayans are fucking dead
Straight from the first sentence of Wikipedia:
The Maya civilization (/ˈmaɪə/) was a Mesoamerican civilization that existed from antiquity to the early modern period.
Was
Absolutely zero people are alive today with 100% Mayan ancestry.
You’re insane.
Nice rebuttal
Gengis Khan is dead too. The Mongol Empire is long gone. He’s known for being ancestor to millions today. Do you understand that part?
Wish we could but like the Palestine/Israel conflict we all know we can’t. Just need to score internet points.
Wish also that all this insanity had people being specific about what kind of reparations would help heal the wounds rather than arguing that this is the point where a thousand year’s blood feud should end with the complete destruction of an ethnicity.
Both these violent theocracies need to go. Fuck them all.
Sorry, we like it here
So because someone is an idiot, everyone gets to be idiots? I fully support leaving native land to native people, but we gotta start somewhere and that might aswell be Israel/Palestine.
Or maybe the answer to past ethnonationalism is not modern ethnonationalism?
oh man that is the edgiest of edgy. such a burn bro. such a burn.
Didn’t realize that ‘ethnonationalism bad’ was such a hot take.
you don’t get the nuance man. hes saying the guy is white. regardless of what reality is. so it hits on so many levels. maybe white. maybe just some native blood. oh man. next level shit.
So people who were born in Israel must be displaced and have their homes and lives taken too? That’s your solution?
Seems like ur fine when its happening to Arabs.
How did this get downvoted. You’re completely right about their hypocrisy.
Because it’s not actively happening in Gaza. Gaza has the 1967 borders and no settlements. Israel evicted every Jewish settler in the mid 2000s at an honest effort of peace. And Gaza was suppose to be the model for peace and a 2 state solution in the region.
Instead of peace there’s been constant, increasing conflict coming from Gaza. And not just against Israel, but against Egypt and the West Bank too.
This is simply not true.
What part isn’t true?
- There have been no new settlement in Gaza Since the Disengagement?
- Gaza has the 1967 borders.
- All settlers in the Gaza strip were evicted
- The Gaza Disengagement Plan was an honest attempt at Peace by Israel’s left wing coalition?
- Violence from Hamas and originating in Gaza has increased since it took over the territory.
- Violence from Hamas has increased since it took over the territory, not just against Israel but against Egypt too.
- Violence from Hamas has increased since it took over the territory, not just against Israel but against West Bank too.
Because it hasn’t happened to most of the residents of Gaza, the land Hamas administers. Gaza has had the 1967 borders since like 2004 and 1/2 the population of Gaza is below 18. So most Gazan have never had land taken from them.
Lmfao. Idk how u can be this wrong
Gaza has the 1967 borders. And in 2004-2005 had all of its Jewish settlements forcibly evicted by Israel.
So most of the population of Gaza (under 18) cannot have had their land stolen from them, as Israel hasn’t stolen any land since then.
This is simply a lie that is easily disproven by a quick Google search.
Why?
Why not start by giving all of western Massachusetts back to the Wampanoag, Upstate NY to the Iroquois tribes, and the rest of the US to whichever other native tribe was originally lived there?
Or start by giving Australia back to the aboriginals?
Should apartheid have ended by deporting all the white South Africans back to Europe? Or was it a good thing that it ended by, you know, giving black South Africans rights?
Personally, I’m all for a one state solution, so long as it’s one secular, democratic state that protects everyone’s rights.
Gaza West Bank and Israel all have to be dissolved. “Give the land back” implies land can be owned at all, which fundamentally violates the right of others to freedom of movement.
Guthrie said it best,
There was a big, high wall there that tried to stop me
A sign was painted said “Private Property”
But on the backside, it didn’t say nothing
That side, was made for you and me
What needs to happen is the abolition of Israel and Palestine and the replacement of both with a south levant confederation that absolutely guarantees the equal rights of all citizens, and absolutely cracks down to the draconian nth degree against supremacism or separatism.
The Israelis have ruined the two state solution with their settlements in WB and in the Golan heights, so now they get to live with the consequences of democratic accountability instead of doing the rez shit America pulled where nobody felt like answering if indigenous folks were citizens too until they were demographically outnumbered enough to not retaliate against the politicians that screwed them.
Hamas are not freedom fighters, their the corrupt rez boss family that wittingly or not are the extension of the state’s oppression over the people.
Also before anyone tries to cry
wolfAnti-Semite, Israel’s a major funder of stateside politicians that ferment antisemitic sentiments by tolerating it among their supporters. Why you may ask? Because American Jews rejected Zionism heavily since their state of being in the US served as a direct refutation of the idea that Jews needed their own ethnostate to ever be safe. Israeli Jews often openly contempt American Jews for being “woke” since even orthodox american Jews can be considered more liberal than their European and Israeli counterparts.Israel wants to make America as hostile to Jews within their borders as possible because every family that flees to Tel Aviv over a swastika painted on the synagogue is another house they get to take from the Palestinians, and another “point” in the score in their vendetta against American Jews having rejected the initial call at Israel’s establishment.
A no state solution? I’m in favor.
Boy what a hoot these comments are
I knew coming in here they’d be an absolute shitshow and they have not disappointed a bit
Well, the first thing has yet to happen.
Has Israel made any promises about respecting Palestine’s right to exist?
Here is a list of peace offers which would grant the Palestinians a country of their own, they refused all of them
1937 - Peel commission, rejected
1947 - Partition resolution, rejected
2000 - Camp David, rejected
2001 - Taba, rejected. Arafat starts the second intifada and a year later changes his mind.
2008 - Olmert offer, rejected
Hamas have tried to agree to boundaries Despite media attempts to portray it as a new Hamas charter, it is not. The new ‘policy document’ accepts the creation of a Palestinian state in 1967 borders, but still rejects Israel and claims its territory. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-39775103
Here are some other noteworthy peace meeting or proposals from Israel to the rest if the Arab world, which were rejected
1919: Arabs of Palestine refused nominate representatives to the Paris Peace Conference.
1920: San Remo conference decisions, rejected.
1922: League of Nations decisions, rejected.
1937: Peel Commission partition proposal, rejected.
1938: Woodhead partition proposal, rejected
1947: UN General Assembly partition proposal (UNGAR 181), rejected.
1949: Israel’s outstretched hand for peace (UNGAR 194), rejected.
1967: Israel’s outstretched hand for peace (UNSCR 242), rejected.
1978: Begin/Sa’adat peace proposal, rejected (except for Egypt).
1994: Rabin/Hussein peace agreement, rejected by the rest of the Arab League (except for Egypt).
1995: Rabin’s Contour-for-Peace, rejected.
2000: Barak/Clinton peace offer, rejected.
2001: Barak’s offer at Taba, rejected.
2005: Sharon’s peace gesture, withdrawal from Gaza, rejected.
2008: Olmert/Bush peace offer, rejected.
2009 to 2021: Netanyahu’s repeated invitations to peace talks, rejected.
2014: Kerry’s Contour-for-Peace, rejected.
Not gonna link Trump’s imbecilic peace plan as an example.
Here is a list of peace offers
the Palestiniansthe governing body of palestinians offered to Israel -None
- Isreal outstretched arms in peace… Just after laying waste to people’s homes and killing innocent lives.
The fact of the matter is no one will agree to live in a portion of thier homeland, especially one were priced farmland and religious sites lay.
They have historically lived in the area longer than the Jewish population.
So, what happened in 1948 that lead to 1949, and what historically happened with the original inhabitants of the region (spoiler alert, the Jews) over the past 2000 years? Or does your knowledge of history stop in 1949?
And what happened before 1940? And what happened before 1920? And what happened…
This conflict is based on religion. There will never be one true “owner of the land” because land doesnt work like that.
Hey, I think a peaceful solution where both co-exist can and should be implemented. That’s the ideal.
I’m just pointing out that if we start going off history, it’s ultimately going to point at Jews being the original inhabitants of the land and having that land taken from them. Anyone who tries to justify atrocities against Jews with selective history or any whataboutisms is either completely ignorant of history or has an ulterior motive.
The harsh reality is that the ultra-orthodox Jews will need to be silenced and the majority of men in Palestine will need to be as well. I’d hope for peaceful rehabilitation, we did a good job with it in Germany and an okay job in Japan. But the dark side of this is that it may end up with long or life-time internment for extremists. They will stop any peace process as long as they are free to interfere. And we’re talking hundreds of thousands of men here.
At the end of the day though, if only one side is going to get the land due to lack of action from the international community, then it deserves to be Israel. If you think that’s wrong, then try chanting “Gays for Free Palestine” in Gaza and see what happens.
if only one side is going to get the land due to lack of action from the international community, then it deserves to be Israel.
It’s a vibes-based thing, then? Cool
At the end of the day this whole thing is too big and old for me and all i will contribute is drinking on antisemites and contrarians
But the Holocaust happened so the state of Israel is allowed to genocide others apparently
I mean the jews that fled to israel were being genocided everywhere. This all started way before the holocaust my dude. This conflict is not one to be very wisecrack about. How far back do you look for who is the baddie and whos the goodie?
So, what happened in 1948 that lead to 1949
The Nakba
The Jews were not the original inhabitants of the land. That claim is solely on early Arabs. They lived, settled and thrived for 3000 years before they were driven out by Canaanites.
Not only were the Arabs the original inhabitants of the area but they also lived there the longest amount of time.
Pretty much, yes.
Israeli Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich delivered a speech in Paris saying the notion of a Palestinian people was artificial.
“There is no such thing as a Palestinian nation. There is no Palestinian history. There is no Palestinian language,” he said in France late Sunday. He spoke at a lectern draped with what appeared to be an image showing the map of Israel that included the occupied West Bank, Gaza and Jordan.
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/no-such-thing-as-palestinian-people-top-israeli-minister-says
You want Israel to give land back to Egypt and Jordan?
Why?
No, the current idea is to create a Palestinian state using the land that Israel currently occupies.
In 1988, with the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) intention to declare a Palestinian State, Jordan renounced all territorial claims to the West Bank, including East Jerusalem.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_territories
But I suspect you are trying (and failing) to create some “gotcha” moment. Israel doesn’t have the legal right to annex Gaza, the West Bank, or East Jerusalem. They simply control it because they have more guns.
Israel doesn’t have the legal right to annex Gaza, the West Bank, or East Jerusalem. They simply control it because they have more guns.
That’s generally how “legal rights” have historically worked among nations.
It’s always funny when people act like they know about a subject, and then argue against things that have long been settled. Acquiring territory through war has been illegal since before Israel existed as a modern country.
It was recognized as a principle of international law that gradually deteriorated in significance until its proscription in the aftermath of World War II following the concept of crimes against peace introduced in the Nuremberg Principles.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_of_conquest
It doesn’t matter what “historically worked”. Weapons in the past 100 years are too powerful to allow for conquest. Israel’s occupation of Gaza, the West Bank, and East Jerusalem violate international norms and the international community doesn’t recognize occupation as justified.
And they can’t just keep the land because they were attacked first. Only defensive wars are permitted under international law.
That’s not a “current” idea, and is only diplomatically material. Hell it’s only historically diplomatically material because Jordan and Egypt don’t give a rat’s ass about Palestinians after Palestinian refugees attempted coups in their countries.
My point is that the Gaza strip and West Bank were won in the Six Day War from Jordan and Egypt, so I’m not sure who OP means when they say “return land”
Palestine isn’t a country, wasn’t ever a country, and was only offered the possibility of becoming a country by Israel.
Don’t know why you are getting down voted when that’s literally what happened.
People don’t care about what’s factual. They care about what confirms their priors.
Again still being down voted. Alot! These pro Palestine need to actually read what has actually happened over there and what Israel and the Jewish have been through over there I got humbled real quick watching this.its funny how they can scream kill the Jews but when the Jews say kill the Palestinians it’s instantly pulled back. It’s only Hamas. Well didn’t jiltwr say kill and gas all Jews. We are walking right back to ww2 again it’s ridiculous.
https://youtu.be/dEoVzKyD_IM?si=bi0zByaQkvReT_1Q
And I know most will go eww Ben Shapiro. Dudes spewing facts look it up.
Actually, “Palestine” is the historic name for the region. Denying it’s existence is denying the existence of the Kingdom of Israel.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Palestine
Your weird erasure of the concept of “Palestine” would be called anti-Semitic if you were talking about Israel. I’m just going to assume it’s bigotry at this point. Some Palestinians have roots going back thousands of years in the region. Israel is Palestine dummy.
So not a country, then, as your link confirms.
Facts again.
Palestine is recognised as a state by huge portions of the world. While, yes, it wasn’t a state in the history of the region, the Palestinian people lived in the region under British and formerly Ottoman rule. Israeli settlers haven’t taken land from the state of Palestine, but they have taken it from the people who have lived in Palestine since the 7th century.
This is just the same argument with different words. They took land from Egyptians and Jordanians when they won the war. There were no “Palestinian people” as any sort of political bloc, prior to 1967.
If the Palestinian people want their own county, they should take one of the many deals they’ve been offered to have their own country.
I’m not talking about the Gaza strip, I’m talking about the area that was once Mandatory Palestine. That land was conquered by the British during the fall of the Ottoman empire, and subsequently taken over to become (most of) what is now Israel and Palestine. Before the Mandate, you’re right that Palestine as an idea didn’t exist, but ther were still people there - most of them Arabs, as had been the case for a very long time before Britain invaded and allowed settlers in. Perhaps the Arabs living in Mandatory Palestine should have taken the “deal” offered them by the UN in 1947, but can you blame them? As far as they were concerned their home had been conquered by a colonial power, settlers had arrived from overseas, and now the UN wanted to slice Palestine in two and give half to the settlers! Since then, to the people who have been displaced, I imagine every new deal just seems like they’re being hemmed further into a corner. I understand why they wouldn’t accept, even though personally I agree that, at some point, they should have - much bloodshed would have been avoided.
Their home has already been conquered, several thousand years prior, and the British did not colonize the area.
Sorry who’s home was conquered when? The British Empire might not have colonised Palestine but they did conquer it and allow settlers in with the intention of forming a state for the Jews.
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“Shithead edgelord dunking on the West in the comments section”… check.
That’s a Lemmy Bingo! LET’S GOOO
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Jews are from Judea, Arabs are from Arabia, the Arabs should give the Jews ALL their land back including Jordan, and the Africans all their land back, and fuck off back to Arabia :>/
Genetics and ancestry is a lot more messy than that.
Both Jews and Palestinians seem to have substantial native Levantine DNA with moderate admixtures from different groups.
If Ashkenazi Jews are indigenous to Israel despite having a significant amount of European maternal DNA, so are Palestinians. Genetically, Ashkenazim and Palestinians are cousins.
Shhh, your insulting the purity of their blood.
This is what always baffled me.
I’m a 2nd gen Palestinian American, I have more native Levant in me than most of these settler folks and I’ve never even been there.
This certainly doesn’t sound like a racist, expansionist, authoritarian take. Why don’t you speak a little more on what you’d like to do to the peoples of Arabia? I can’t tell, do you consider them people?
Especially precious is that Jordan was never part of Judea in significant part.
PugJesus, stop making sense all the time.
It’s a curse 😞
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And we should split all mixed people down the middle and scatter their limbs across their respective land? Great idea! *sharpens machete*
I guess you also want all the non-indigenous people in the Americas to move back to where their ancestors came from, too? England and Spain are gonna get really crowded.
GTFO with this racist bullshit. What you’re calling for is called ethnic cleansing.
He actually straight up calls it a cleansing in a comment from one day ago:
Hamas and Hezbollah financier, Iran, who calls America the Great Satan, and Israel the Zionist Entity which it will wipe form the history books, two weeks after “Palestinian” Islamofacist Terrorists stormed into Israel and slaughtered, raped, and burnt close to 2 thousand Israelis, concerns are noted.
The war will end, once Hamas and PIJ are cleansed from Gaza, and then Gaza will look far different than it does today, with far greater buffers between where the Arabs will live and the Israeli border. It’s not going to end a millisecond before that is achieved, come what may.
We’ve got the US battle group in the Eastern Med, and we’re ready to take on all fucking comers.So yeah, do your part and report this guy. I have multiple times and nothing has been done.
To be fair the Arab nations surrounding Israel has been calling for Jewish ethnic cleansing of the holy lands for the past 60 years.
Crimes against humanity do not stop being crimes against humanity just because someone else is also bad.
Give the Southern Levant back to the Canaanites!
You find me one, and we’ll talk. The Jewish people’s indiginousy is recorded right there in our DNA for anyone to see. But the Edge lords, Jew baiters, Nazis, Islamofascists, and Anarchists, don’t want to have the real conversation about Arab colonialism, and land rights. Doesn’t matter to us, at all, we’re home now, and we aren’t going anywhere without a fight to the last.
Wait, so the record is right there in their blood right? And it proves the land/ground/soil is theirs right? The blood is their right to the soil… Blood and soil? Where have I heard that one before?
The land isn’t yours, it belongs to the Canaanites. What’s with this Israeli colonialism on Canaanite land?
Biblical history isn’t that great; the Torah was first written during the Babylonian captivity, and is generally agreed to have been composed from 600-300 BCE based off earlier oral traditions. Moses is generally placed ~1300 BCE - hundreds and hundreds of years before the first written Torah.
Archeologically, there’s basically no evidence that supports the Exodus. Like any oral tradition passed down for the better part of a millennium, things got mythologized and expanded on.
Based off both archeology and genetics, Israelites, Phoenicians, Moabites, etc. are considered Canaanites. It’s more of a broad linguistic and ethnic category than a specific kingdom.
Without a fight to the last American, that is! You’re welcome for all our tax dollars, investments, and military power you’ve been using, by the way.
The Bible and all of history disagrees, but u do u.
please stop.
No one ever returns land that’s been taken, winners rewards
It was stolen from them first, that shouldn’t be in the argument
Just be anti-violence
Wut.
Are you confused about Jews being forced to flee/convert to Islam hundreds of years ago or by someone wanting non-violent conflict resolution?
I’m confused why you’ve injected your “persecuted first” logic into a dispute over basic human rights.
Now I’m confused, I’m advocating for a humane response and saying that the 2nd panel doesn’t help
Without addressing those issues no humane response will be had either way. Although trying to address them doesn’t seem to help either. But the “both sides need to stop fighting” line doesn’t work for me. One has to take into consideration the power imbalances and systemic segregation involved. Under some circumstances I don’t think it is at all immoral to act in violence- I do think it becomes a self perpetuating firestorm that takes on a life all of its own, but that doesn’t mean that the adversaries are by necessity equally culpable for causing it, or that they struggle on equal moral footing.
Weird how ‘humane response’ is exclusive of acknowledging the inhumane actions of one of the parties involved.
Which party is that?
Well it’s right there in that second panel… Did you forget what you were complaining about already?
They didn’t stole any land. One needs to know some history, but many sadly don’t.
While i agree with you to some extent, your delivery sounds like you just wanna be contrarian.
No, I actually studied the topic.
Your delivery wasn’t really that of a person that knows what they are talking about. Still sound like a contrarian. But now also like a douche.
Ouch watch out angry SJWs will come and attack you.
