- cross-posted to:
- politics@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- politics@lemmy.world
A Detroit synagogue president was found fatally stabbed outside her home Saturday morning.
Samantha Woll, 40, led the congregation of Isaac Agree Downtown Synagogue. The synagogue confirmed Woll’s death Saturday in a statement writing, “We are shocked and saddened to learn of the unexpected death of Samantha Woll, our Board President.”
“May her memory be a blessing,” the statement continued.
Authorities said a 911 call was made to Woll’s home early Saturday, reporting an individual lying on the ground unresponsive. Police discovered multiple stab wounds on Woll’s body and found a trail of blood leading to her house, where they believe the crime occurred.
An investigation is underway. At this time, the motive for the crime remains unknown.
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Far right white supremacist killings of Jews is far more prevalent in the US than Muslim killings of Jews. My first suspects would be among the extreme right.
The whole far right media ecosystem is fucked. There was also the young Palestinian boy stabbed to death by a white right-wing nutjob for being Muslim recently because of the media’s portrayal of this conflict.
Ordinarily I’d agree with you, but Occam’s razor doesn’t. Metro Detroit is home to the largest Arabic community in the country. I believe Jewish/Arab relations are pretty sound there, but given the current circumstances…
Far right arab supremacists also exist. Impossible to rule them out especially given the timing and circumstances.
place your bets place your bets will it be a nazi, a klansman, a jihadist, death by cop (never discount the possibility) or just some other random murderer? AAAAAMERRRRRICA THE LAND OF FREEDOM AND LIBERTY
Forgetting the biggest cause of murders for women in the US: it was someone they knew, probably a lover.
Police discovered multiple stab wounds on Woll’s body and found a trail of blood leading to her house, where they believe the crime occurred.
A distinct possibility since she was stabbed at home.
Right? Stabbings are a strictly American phenomenon, as is racially or religiously motivated violence and just violence in general. Don’t see any of those happening anywhere else in the entire world, people in other countries have pillowfights at most. America wake up, everywhere else is a utopia while you slide into a dystopia.
don’t interfere with the murica bad circlejerk
Am I interfering or joining it?
Man in NRA hat: Interfering? I’m fucking sponsoring it!
You are right stabbings do happen elsewhere it’s the guns that set America apart.
I see you’ve never played expanded rock paper scissors. Grenade beats gun beats knife, so Sweden still beats America but at least America (and CZ) beats the rest of europe.
Maybe but the extreme right are mostly cowards that like to use firearms. A stabbing is off brand for right wing MAGAts.
Nope. Remember the 71yo landlord who stabbed his Muslim tenants recently? Mother and her 6yo boy?
They like guns, but it seems most of them accidentally shoot each other/themselves.
But yes, cowards that like guns is true.
Interesting, but that does seems right.
Talking out of my ass here, but I’ve heard that stabbing is a more personal crime. You need to get closer so it’s more likely to be someone that feels deeply threatened or personally hurt.
That might be why we see these antisemitic attacks being stabbings, because the extremists feel deeply terrified and hurt.
I’m not justifying the crime - it’s evil and they need to be locked up. But we need to understand where this extremism is coming from if we want to stop it.
You are right in that stabbings feel much more personal psychologically, but I would imagine a murderer would pick the most sure weapon if it was entirely premeditated. It seems as though the guy had no intention of hiding the killing.
I’m sure many of these extremists were either charged with a felony before or involuntarily committed to a mental hospital. Both mean that they are federally banned from guns for life. I think many of these murders are out of strong rage rather than calculated killings, but they’d still probably prefer to use a gun if they had easy access.
How can they say that shit definitively? People often stab because they don’t have access to guns, it doesn’t mean what they’re doing is personal.
Out of morbid curiosity… are the
skinheadswhite supremacists rooting for the Israelis or Hamas? Usually they don’t like brown people, but they also don’t like Jewish people.They’re rooting for the Israelis because they want the ethnostate project to succeed.
They know no one outside of their cult is going to support them even if the Israeli government succeeds in committing genocide, don’t they?
Even if in their eyes we are blatant hypocrites, it’d be better to be a hypocrite than to give people like that an inch.
It still stands as an example of a successful ethnostate. It’s also a destination where they can claim that Jews can be expelled to and that it should be “fine”.
And no one listens to white supremacists because we understand life is not black and white like that, and by their reputation alone, white supremacists will never ever get what they want.
and yet the republican party exists, and even thrives.
Okay, fair. Addendum to that: no one outside of their little cult listens to white supremacists.
I realize this isn’t your point but I feel the need to point out that skinheads are not nazis - it is unfortunately a very well working project of cultural appropriation by the racists.
In the scene racist skinheads are mostly referred to as boneheads, a term which I think makes much more sense.
This pile of shit isn’t the same as this other pile of shit.
Got it.
Know. Your. Shit.
Well one “pile of shit” is racist, the other “pile of shit” is poor and works in manufacturing where they don’t want their hair ripped into a machine, and also likes punk music. Imo, to call the second ones piles of shit for simply being poor workers with haircuts that reflect work safety and like semi-heavy music (what skinheads actually came from that you’re sarcastically pretending to understand) makes you a classist (remember, know your shit, you aren’t racist but seems you’re classist) pile of shit. Also groups like SHARP exist.
Know your shit indeed, especially before being so confidently incorrect.
He’s got ‘flunk’ in the username, and speaks correspondingly. Keep up the good info fight.
You’re naive if you have never seen a non racist skinhead. Most of the skinheads at punk and metal shows in my area are SHARPS(Skinheads Against Racial Prejudice) and are also black or hispanic. They drove out the local racist skinheads from punk and metal shows by ruthlessly attacking anyone who showed up wearing Nazi bullshit. They are fine people, the kind of people you want as a neighbor.
Not only that, but the first skinheads were just working class Ska music fans of all races. The shaved head image was stolen from them by racist skinheads in the 80s.
In general, they have different things they perceive and admire about the two. Please know, I’ll be using some of their words. In Hamas, they see people battling “Degeneracy” and “Jewish Influence.” There is an admiration for Israel, as an theocratic apartheid ethnostate. Seriously, at protests, Ive seen them carry Israeli flags before. Mostly, though its a party. “The subhumans” are fighting, one will be destroyed and one will look bad in the eyes of the international community.
I dont mean to necro anything, @gravitas_deficiency@sh.itjust.works ,
This article articulates the answer to your question very well, with Nick Fuentes being quoted.
Definitely the muslims. Believe it or not the far right doesn’t hate muslims, just don’t want to be around them. They think American involvement in the muslim world was a result of American military being used for Jewish interests. But they consider Israel to be the leading force in global destabilization. So 100% they are rooting for Palestine.
Many Israelis are brown people, about 20 % are Palestinian and there are also Muslims in Israel. Hating or not hating Israel isn’t a litmus test for Nazis.
I guess the most Nazi standpoint on Israel-Palestine conflict is to rub one’s hands.
And the current geopolitical climate could give the far right cover for committing antisemitic crimes. Particularity for crimes less serious (and therefore less well investigated) than murder, they can commit hate crimes and blame it on the Arabs.
what a bunch of cope lol. there are orders of magnitude more jew hating muslims than “white supremacists” in the usa.
the DHS would disagree with you, seeing as they named White Nationalist groups the biggest terrorist threat to the USA in 2020
I’m sure there are no political motives that influenced that.
Also that was 3 years ago. In the current climate I’m not sure I would be so sure. You have muslims ripping down posters of dead israelis all over the united states.
Ur dumb
I know we’re speculating here but imo given what’s going on between Palestine and Israel I would be inclined to believe the latter rather than the former.
At this time, the motive for the crime remains unknown.
Unknown? Clearly this prominent Jewish community leader in Detroit was viciously stabbed to death for her playstation, there was no other reason possible.
- Attempted robbery
- Hate crime
- Targeted attack by someone with a personal vendetta unrelated to Woll’s religion
- Random attack by a nutter
Among any number of other potential motives. There’s a definite hierarchy of probability but random blind assertions in public are not how you build an actual fucking criminal case.
You missed the most obvious one: most women are murdered by men they know, and largely by current or former intimate partners. Especially since
[Police] found a trail of blood leading to her house, where they believe the crime occurred.
Thank you. Also worth noting is that this is Detroit, so, while death is always tragic, it’s not unheard of in the city.
Nope. All available evidence you need is in the article, didn’t you read it? Her religion. That’s it, case closed.
But… I guess if that’s somehow not enough, we could just to sprinkle some crack on her.
Edit: I assumed the Dave Chappelle sprinkle crack callback would make the sarcasm clear. Apparently not.
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When you take everything you read literally and as Very Serious Business, do you do it as a studied effort, or are you just like this?
Oh what, so now you were JUST KIDDING BRO.
Shut the fuck up.
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It’s so weird how you could have just said “you know what bro, that makes sense.” and grown a bit from the experience, but instead you thought “yOU tAkE tHInGs too LiTeraL” was an appropriate response.
Fuck me if I’ll ever understand these types of people.
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I know it’s sometimes hard to decipher sarcasm from written word, but holy shit people took your joke insanely seriously.
Stay away from stand-up comedy, someone might discover you own a PlayStation as well.
FWIW, I chuckled. What a sad fucking story and what a sad fucking state that you’re consoling humor went so unappreciated.
Or maybe sarcastically implying that a murder was a hate crime when we know literally nothing about the situation is a shit joke. Immediately screeching like a toddler after very mild pushback isn’t a good look either.
I’m just not reading it as screeching, but what do I know? I misread tone all the time.
Either way, I’m morbidly curious what they’re going to find about this. Stabbing murders tend to be incredibly personal, which could imply that this was done by someone close to her or someone wanted to delight in her suffering.
I’m no detective, just some random internet dude, but if not a hate crime, whoever murdered this poor lady certainly had some strong feelings about her.
Let the pearl-clutching begin!
You can’t make any assumptions in these situations. If police are known for anything, it’s being level-headed and unbiased.
LMAO
Well, that is the prevailing theory (by the anti self defense crowd anyway) for why home invasions occur and is commonly used as the reasoning for why self defense is bad.
In my opinion this is a case for why self defense is necessary (because clearly not everyone is “just here for your TV”), but Everytown would prefer this outcome to her shooting the stabber, so…
Local Jew in Detroit here. Woll was my friends’ cousin. Another friend was in elementary school with her at Hillel.
People are shook up and scared. People aren’t sure if this is the crest of a wave of antisemitic violence, or something more senseless.
My 3 kids are half Jewish through my ex wife. I hear you and I had a chat with them this morning about this. Although I’m in Toronto, Canada the same bigots are here and have been empowered by the same vitriolic rhetoric floating around.
I told them that hate is hate and if they hear it directed specifically at them or a Muslim in their school (friends with Iranians) for them to report to the teachers and to me. Hate will not be tolerated.
Please stay safe.
My daughter is also half-Jewish (I’m Jewish, my wife is not). I’m always worried about her getting bullied in school for it. I tell her to never tell anyone.
One of her elementary school teachers just assumed she was Jewish because I look stereotypically Jewish and treated her differently because of it.
I hear you and as a parent it’s so sad knowing a child is being told to hide their identity.
Hugs from afar. There are many of us non-Jews out there that don’t condone this bullshit.
Stay safe.
Thanks, I appreciate it!
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Just in general, antisemitic hate crimes have been disproportionate for a pretty long time, regardless of the situation in Gaza.
May her memory be a blessing.
Those who spread lies and disinformation are responsible for this death. The Jew hate needs to stop. This woman was American, not Israeli.
Would that be better? If some Israeli Jew living in the US had been stabbed?
There is no evidence this was fueled by antisemitism. People get stabbed all the time in american cities and no one bats an eye.
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weird comment
I thought shooting was more of the American thing, but then again they probably just outnumber the stabbings
Stabbings are usually regarded as a crime committed by someone who knew the victim. I believe this was not a hate crime but something done by the mind of either revenge or other assorted modes of emotional violence. I believe this crime has entered the news churn to carry out an agenda.
The stabbing in Chicago is a recent example of a hate crime with a knife. Stabbings are often crimes of passion which would fit the bill for a bigot who’s over the edge due to the Hamas propaganda being pushed right now.
The agenda here is your attempt to minimize the Anti Semitism/ Jew hate we’re seeing rise in America and abroad. Anyone with half of a brain sees this bigotry a mile away.
Using fear of the unknown as a tactic wil usually herd the sheep. I am not going to scream fire everyone someone strikes a match. Accusing me of bigotry because I am waiting for more proof is also an intimidation tactic to comply.
Heres an update for YOU.
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Are you actually that stupid or are you trolling?
For all the bigots out there who say the issues with Israel not with jews. This is a shining example of the fact that it is actually Jews, not Israel that people are targeting.
The way that you framed that statement makes it seem as if you can’t have a problem with a state’s actions without also hating its people.
Secondly, this woman was victimized in her own home, which usually implies that she knew the perpetrator. It could still be racially motivated, but there’s not a lot of evidence supporting that. If she had been killed near or around a synagogue, it would make more sense to jump to that conclusion… However, for the time being it’s best to wait and see what the police say before calling everyone a terrorist.
And the way your framing this intentionally diminishes the clear rise in Anti Semitic violence we’re seeing across America and the world.
We have clear recent examples demonstrating that your argument doesn’t hold up.
You’re an Anti Semite and you’re disgusting.
And the way your framing this intentionally diminishes the clear rise in Anti Semitic violence we’re seeing across America and the world.
Yeah my dude, violence against minority populations has risen across the board in the last few years. That’s kinda a known issue when people start electing white supremacists.
What we were speaking of specifically is people committing violence against Jewish people for their perceived association with the actions of the Israeli state.
We have clear recent examples demonstrating that your argument doesn’t hold up.
Do we though? I mean, I’m not combing over the Internet for Islamic reprisal attacks on Jewish Americans, but I haven’t seen attacks that would justify your claim.
You’re an Anti Semite and you’re disgusting.
You know every time you inappropriately utilize that label it diminishes its impact and warps its definition. Just because someone doesn’t agree with your point of view, doesn’t mean they hate your entire race. It’s kinda ridiculous to attempt to frame it that way considering the historical context.
IDK neither. I could be stupid, you’re on to something. I’m just asking a question to get people to think. Apparently, thinking makes you mad and its my fault for making you mad. Sorry about that.
However, if you link this to an uptick in antisemitism tied to lies about Israel spread by “decolonizers” you’re Noticing Things, And Therefore Wrong.
You don’t believe Israelites are illegally colonizing Palestine?
Gaza or the West Bank? If both, then no and yes. Israel dismantled settlements in Gaza in 2005. Unfortunately, settlements continued in the West Bank, aggravating efforts to conclude the hand off of two of the three districts there.
Hamas is from the Gaza Strip, not the West Bank though. Gaza relations have been weird, but stabilizing with daily work travel through the border. Arguably, Hamas attacked now for fear that relations would continue to improve with Gaza, setting back their mission.
Both. Israel has illegally colonized Palestinian land in Gaza and the West Bank for 60 years now.
What Gazan land does Israel occupy?
Recently?
https://www.axios.com/2023/10/21/gaza-strip-israel-hamas-war-demographics
Israel’s been wholly occupying Gaza since 2007.
As of the most recent flare up, the blockade has increased to include water, fuel and food, so the occupation is becoming more severe.
A blockade is not an occupation, unless you’re suggesting that the British were actually occupying all of Germany and Austria-Hungary in 1916.
Note that I’m not saying that a blockade is not harsh or oppressive, only that it is not in fact the same thing as an occupation.
Israeli soldiers, since 1967 , have been occupying Palestinian Gaza.
The UN also agrees that Israel is occupying Palestinian land in Gaza.
Forcibly invading a land and residing on its soil may not be interpreted as an occupation by certain people in certain circumstances, but I can’t interpret the forceable invasion and residing on Palestinian soil, and imposition of Israeli laws on Palestinian citizens as anything other than colonization, or illegal occupation.
It’s impossible to claim that land as Palestinian when Palestine has never been a country and that land has never exclusively belonged to what are now called Palestinians
Yes, according to the people committing genocide and bombing schools and hospitals, Palestine is not a country and Palestinians are not human.
You’re in like company.
Palestine has literally never been a country, in all of human history.
Also Israel offered Palestinians their own country multiple times and Palestinian leadership turned it down. The situation is far more complex than you’re pretending.
The primary occupying nation and all people supporting the genocide of Palestine totally agree with you, so. Good. For you guys. To share that opinion.
So Palestinians think they themselves are not human?
Nope, israelis believe the Palestinians are animals: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbPdR3E4hCk
That is the israeli defense minister making the decision to block water, food or fuel going to Palestinian civilians, basing his decision on his claim that Palestinians are animals.
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Why?
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As opposed to the actual genocide in progress. Keep Detroit out of your fucking mouth you inbred. The people from both communities are fine, respectful and for the most part supportive of each other here. From Levin to Tlaib, we value our diversity and the large immigrant communities that have been a staple of the Tri-county Metro area. You’re trash.
People trying to start conflict when there isn’t any further information yet. This person gave her heart and soul for the city and I can promise you she would have wanted us to continue her progress, keep Detroit growing stronger together. The division that exists in the middle east is not here and I know the Jewish and Muslim communities don’t want it here either. Detroit will be a city of peace one day because of our diversity. We’ve already seen the devastation that prejudice creates.
Perfectly said comrade of the narrows. That’s Michigan real ones. We use our voices to lift up community rather than try to poison peoples minds with prejudice.
What the fuck do American jews in Detroit have to do with the conflict in Israel?
A mouth breather of a landlord who watched conservative social media decided to stab his tenants, a Muslim child and his mother, to death declaring “you muslims need to die” to the same family be built a tree house for last year. Poison spreads.
Coming to you straight from the Will Smith school of diplomacy. Are you going to walk up and slap him next and get banned from Lemmy?
Yikes, don’t quit your day job.
Imagine living and enjoying your city and the people in it quite a lot. Then try to imagine that every piece of national news you’ll ever see about it is because of cars or the selling of murder narratives. It gets old and doubly so when someone is trying to paint a portrait of a place and community they’ve never stepped foot in. I love this place and my Muslim and Jewish neighbors that live in it. If you don’t feel the same way for your community and your neighbors then I feel sad for you.
Meanwhile the folks actually taking land from the river to the sea: https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/netanyahu-brandishes-map-of-israel-that-includes-west-bank-and-gaza-at-un-speech/
So it’s fair for one side to say it but not the other? That’s what they feel this fight is over, of course they’re going to both use similar language and positioning on opposite sides of the situation.
The hypocrisy being exposed these past two weeks is astonishing. Again Israel is being held to different standards than the extremely well funded government of terrorists who’s charter calls for the murder of all Jews.
You mean the terrorists cultivated by Israel to use as an excuse to drive out Palestinians completely?: https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/10/16/how-benjamin-netanyahu-empowered-hamas/
Israel is being held to a higher standard because they caused it. They’re also the ones actually committing ethnic cleansing and have all the power to stop it.
100,000 chanted it at a rally in London last week, not because they’re calling for a Israeli genocide, but because they support Palestinian human rights. Hate speech is against the law here, yet no one was arrested for doing so.
Tbf our racist scumbag of a Home Secretary thinks it’s “widely understood to be antisemitic”. But she really is a terrible human so I don’t count her opinion for much.
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Detroit also has a vibrant and storied Jewish community. Hell, the most prominent Prohibition-era gang in Detroit was a Jewish one.
“I mean, any percent above zero is more than enough.” - That asshole
Not to say all Muslims want to do violent things; but I believe the logic is that as a Jewish person, one should probably stay as far away from areas heavily populated by Muslim folks who may or may not have a couple brothers, cousins, and uncles who want to stone you to death or some other awful thing… As possible.
… You didn’t want to say that but you wanted to imply it, apparently – and to imply it so clearly that it’s difficult to imagine you intending anything else.
It would have saved a lot of typing if you had just said “because I’m a racist”
How do you make a 911 call to someone’s home?
The article has been revised to clarify for you
Authorities said a 911 caller early Saturday reported a person lying on the ground unresponsive at Woll’s home.
Know what street you’re on, see the house numbers on the mailbox, dial 911, say “hey yes it seems someone is injured outside [ADDRESS], I noticed while walking/driving by.”
Seems easy enough to me.
It’s just ackward phrasing
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Remind me about all these murderous far-left terrorists please. This whole argument is absolutely stupid.
His post is not comparing levels of past acts of terrorism but rather current levels of antisemitism.
Anyone of any view can be radicalized into violence. Hop on over to Hexbear and see the calls for violence for yourself. That’s the same environment that produced multiple terrorists on 4chan.
The point is that it’s an objective fact that the threat to human life from the far left vs the far right has not been at all comparable in recent decades in the US. It just hasn’t. The far left has committed a lot of violence against property, but has almost entirely stayed away from interpersonal violence. This is not true of the far right which to the contrary has racked up a pretty impressive body-count over the last 10 or so years.
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The test is whether you have the mental agility to recognize that there can be more than two opinions on something, and you failed.
Name some.
two extreme ends of a political spectrum are not at all similar. While some responses/behaviors might be similar, that doesn’t extend to the people or ideologies which was the fucking subject to begin with.
Washed and Kentucky fried brains at their best right here.
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Something tells me this is a Detroit thing not a Jew thing.
Taking down the article as to without a word why. lWhy would you do that and run away without an explanation ? leave it up as the investigation continues. Ihttps://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/detroit/2023/10/22/police-investigation-jewish-leader-samantha-woll-slaying-vigil/71282542007/ you coward .
West Bank ? Yea ?
Damn. I’m sure this is exactly what any non-malicious deity would want. /s because I fear it’s needed.
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